an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC (1304 Views)
Community Manager
Kevin_Paul
Posts: 953
Registered: ‎09-16-2005
Message 26 of 60 (593 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

I just received this communication to share with everyone - I realize it doesn't address every concern with this particular situation, but hopefully some of you may find it useful.


If you use HP-UX manpages, please read on.

In 2010, HP-UX technical documentation was migrated from docs.hp.com to the HP Business Support Center (BSC) website which does not support HTML files. As a result, there were concerned customer feedback about accessing manpages on the BSC.

To better support customer needs, the ESS Technical Documentation
(ESSTD) OS team will provide the following enhancements for manpages on the BSC starting with the 1009 Fusion Release:

* Improved Access (quick and precise).
Provide a clickable Master Index to access individual manpages.
The benefits of this new publication:
+ You can access the manpages quickly without scrolling through
a large PDF document.
+ You can use the Master Index to find all links/aliases of the
manpages, making it easier for you to locate information.
For example, the Master Index includes all the links that are
in the sh-posix.1 manpage: alias.1, bg.1, fc.1, fg.1, jobs.1,
rsh.1, and unalias.
+ We can quickly update individual manpages without having to
re-publish an entire hardcopy-based PDF volumes.

* Updated and Expanded Content
+ Publish latest 1009 Fusion Release manpages (Sep 2010).
The last manpage web publication was for 11.31 LR (Feb 2007).

+ Include major ISUs in this publication, such as SD,
DRD, n/vPAR, security products, kernel tracer, and so on.

Starting at 1009 SR, the HP-UX manpages will be located at:
http://www.hp.com/go/hpux-core-docs (HP-UX core docs main page)
http://www.hp.com/go/hpux-clickable-manpages (Live links for quick access)
http://www.hp.com/go/hpux-manpage-docs (HP-UX manpage books)
I work for HP.
Honored Contributor
Patrick Wallek
Posts: 13,774
Registered: ‎06-21-2000
Message 27 of 60 (593 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

>>website which does not support HTML files

That is one of the most ludicrous statements I have ever heard! How can a web site tool NOT be capable of supporting HTML files? That's not just short-sighted, it's utterly inexcusable!
Honored Contributor
Michael Leu
Posts: 508
Registered: ‎01-17-2005
Message 28 of 60 (593 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

My gripe with the Clickable Manpage Index
http://bizsupport2.austin.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/c02456334/c02456334.pdf
(and also hyperlinks in PDFS in general) is that you can't middle-click in Adobe Reader to open the link in another tab. You also can't copy the URL with a right-click from a PDF. So it's a lot of back-and-forth browsing...
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Acclaimed Contributor
James R. Ferguson
Posts: 21,184
Registered: ‎07-06-2000
Message 29 of 60 (593 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

Hi:

I noticed that after its appearance a few days ago (or last week?), the Clickable Index of Manpages has data and works. Thanks for finally providing at least this.

> Kevin: To better support customer needs, the ESS Technical Documentation (ESSTD) OS team will provide the following enhancements for manpages on the BSC starting with the 1009 Fusion Release:
...We can quickly update individual manpages without having to re-publish an entire hardcopy-based PDF volumes.

I'm sorry, but I thought that HP would have thought of that before the year-long transition to the new-and-improved documentation website started! This isn't a new feature, it's a fix!

> Kevin: Starting at 1009 SR, the HP-UX manpages will be located at:
http://www.hp.com/go/hpux-core-docs (HP-UX core docs main page)
http://www.hp.com/go/hpux-clickable-manpages (Live links for quick access)
http://www.hp.com/go/hpux-manpage-docs (HP-UX manpage books)

Well, the http://www.hp.com/go/hpux-manpage-docs link is *broken* here and on the Manuals home page ( http://www.hp.com/go/hpux-core-docs ).

Moreover, where are the clickable indices of manpages for 11iv2 and 11iv1? Since sales of 11iv1 ended last year, and since sales of 11iv2 will end this year, I suppose that there are no plans to enhance their manpages. Correct?

Regards!

...JRF...
Acclaimed Contributor
James R. Ferguson
Posts: 21,184
Registered: ‎07-06-2000
Message 30 of 60 (593 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

Hi (again):

Oh, and one more question at the risk of being pedantic: Why are the names of the manpages on the clickable URL done with a dot notation and not the standard manpage notation?

That is, you have 'chmod.2' instead of the correction notation we would use, which is 'chmod(2)'. Of course, even following the link shows 'chmod(2)' as we would expect. Why change the external reference other than because the web author and/or management didn't know better or didn't care?

If I'm missing something here, please let me know.

...JRF...
Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 25,071
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 31 of 60 (598 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

>JRF: before the year-long transition to the new-and-improved documentation website

Did it actually say "new-and-improved"? :-)

>the http://www.hp.com/go/hpuxmanpage-docs link is *broken* here and on the Manuals home page

It seems to be working now?

>you have 'chmod.2' instead of chmod(2).

Possibly because chmod.2 is the actual name of the manpage on disk?
Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 25,071
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 32 of 60 (598 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

>kevin_paul: Provide a clickable Master Index to access individual manpages.

Has anyone tried to use that index?
For some reason I couldn't find search in acroread so I just paged forward since it is in alpha order.

But I couldn't find cleanup. I later realized that the lists are not sorted going down in columns but across!

For me, this is a usability issue, when I see massive multicolumn output, I expect it to be sorted down in columns, like a phonebook or dictionary.

(Or am I too old fashion? :-)

I did appreciate the section and alphabet links at the top.
Acclaimed Contributor
James R. Ferguson
Posts: 21,184
Registered: ‎07-06-2000
Message 33 of 60 (598 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

Hi:

> Dennis: But I couldn't find cleanup. I later realized that the lists are not sorted going down in columns but across!
For me, this is a usability issue, when I see massive multicolumn output, I expect it to be sorted down in columns, like a phonebook or dictionary.

Yes, I so agree! I have had the same experience and find that I have to constantly re-orient myself. Dennis, you are not alone and not too old-fashioned (or at least in good company) :-))

Regards!

...JRF...
Acclaimed Contributor
James R. Ferguson
Posts: 21,184
Registered: ‎07-06-2000
Message 34 of 60 (598 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

Hi (again):

Time to add some more insult to this injury:

CIFS documentation (more on loss of docs.hp.com)
http://forums.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1444254

It seems that unless one searches 'docs.hp.com' with Google, one may miss significant material.

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised. Google has always been superior to any internal search engine HP offered with its Forums or with its documentation website, in my opinion.

...JRF...
Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 25,071
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 35 of 60 (598 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

>JRF: the Clickable Index of Manpages has data and works.

I didn't notice some more recent changes but I was sent a message internally about documentation improvements, including "Quick References to Accessing Documentation on BSC".

This is available (as a small PDF :-) on http://docs.hp.com/ under What's new.
Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 25,071
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 36 of 60 (598 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

Some more feedback based on our comments here:

>JRF: clickable URL done with a dot notation and not the standard manpage notation?

They are fixing that part: adjust.1 to adjust(1)

>I expect it to be sorted down in columns, like a phonebook or dictionary.

They said: That setup would require customers to scroll up and down more
And they decided not to change it.

I suppose we should have used the PDF find so I wouldn't have to scroll at all.
Honored Contributor
Michael Leu
Posts: 508
Registered: ‎01-17-2005
Message 37 of 60 (598 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

What really bugs me about the BSC is that it logs you out after a hour or so of inactivity. Because you really need that dropdown with your list of products to make that site somewhat fast to navigate.

It should be like here in the ITRC where you stay logged in forever!
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Community Manager
Kevin_Paul
Posts: 953
Registered: ‎09-16-2005
Message 38 of 60 (598 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

Just a quick update everyone - we're working on updating docs.hp.com links in the ITRC forums to the new, updated locations for these manuals. There are obviously *many* links, so it will take a while to update them all.

If anyone has any particular threads that they know are commonly used that contain old links (which result in the "document not found" error), please feel free to include the thread addresses here and I will try to get those moved to the top of the queue...
I work for HP.
Acclaimed Contributor
Torsten.
Posts: 23,285
Registered: ‎10-02-2001
Message 39 of 60 (598 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

These are good news, Kevin.


But what I really miss is the "What's new" page from docs.hp.com ...

:-(

Hope this helps!
Regards
Torsten.

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Frequent Advisor
Akshay44
Posts: 48
Registered: ‎12-26-2000
Message 40 of 60 (598 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

Many HP documents have links pointing to docs.hp.com
Now all are broken. At least a re-direct to the BSC site (appropriate document, not home page!) would be helpful.
The views expressed in my contributions are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views and strategy of HP.
If you find this or any post resolves your issue, please be sure to mark it as an accepted solution, If you are satisfied with anyone’s response please remember to give them a KUDOS and show your appreciation
Community Manager
Kevin_Paul
Posts: 953
Registered: ‎09-16-2005
Message 41 of 60 (604 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

Akshay44 - when you say "HP documents", are you referring to something beyond just discussions in these forums? Can you provide me with an example or two?
I work for HP.
Acclaimed Contributor
Torsten.
Posts: 23,285
Registered: ‎10-02-2001
Message 42 of 60 (604 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

Kevin, good examples are all the 11.31 related docs written before the move was done.

Examples are

LVM_New_Features_11iv3_final.pdf

LVM Migration from Legacy to Agile Naming Model HP-UX 11i v3

HP-UX System Administrator's Guide: Logical
Volume Management HP-UX 11i Version 3

Using the vgmodify command to perform LVM Volume Group Dynamic LUN Expansion (DLE) and Contraction (DLC)


etc, etc ...


Hope this helps!
Regards
Torsten.

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Community Manager
Kevin_Paul
Posts: 953
Registered: ‎09-16-2005
Message 43 of 60 (604 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

Torsten - thanks, that's exactly the type of information I was looking for.

I've searched for "LVM_New_Features_11iv3_final.pdf" and updated those links to reflect the new home for that document - later today I'll work on the other 3 you specified.

Thanks!
I work for HP.
Acclaimed Contributor
Torsten.
Posts: 23,285
Registered: ‎10-02-2001
Message 44 of 60 (604 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

Thanks Kevin.

Again I miss the "What's new" section, because if you update the documents - nobody knows about.

I'm still searching for all the support Matrix documents, e.g. the ethernet and FC card matrix previously located at

http://www.docs.hp.com/en/FCM-SM/FCM-SM.htm

http://www.docs.hp.com/en/FCH-SM/fc_support_matrix.htm

http://docs.hp.com/en/9529/hpux_io_devices.htm

http://www.hp.com/products1/unix/operating/public_hp-ux_systems_support.pdf

http://docs.hp.com/en/SM-20050510/raidcombinedsupportmatrix.htm

and so on ... (more examples needed?)


I also found the reference to docs.hp.com in the latest

HP-UX Virtual Partitions Administrator Guide
September 2010

version A.05.07 document - still the old templates in use?


Apropos vPars - it's really hard to find any vPars related document for the Superdome 2, even it it the first release at this time ...

Hope this helps!
Regards
Torsten.

__________________________________________________

There are only 10 types of people in the world -
those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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Acclaimed Contributor
Torsten.
Posts: 23,285
Registered: ‎10-02-2001
Message 45 of 60 (604 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

By the way, I searched the folder where all my downloaded manuals are for the term "http://docs.hp.com" and I found 419 different documents.







Meanwhile I like the clickable man page index, but is there any chance to use all this offline?

Hope this helps!
Regards
Torsten.

__________________________________________________

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those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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Honored Contributor
Tim Nelson
Posts: 3,727
Registered: ‎06-01-2000
Message 46 of 60 (604 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

Torsten,

Check this out...too bad the docs fiasco fell on deaf ears. Seems that HP is getting hard of hearing. sad...

http://support.openview.hp.com/communities.jsp

The ITRC forums will continue to exist until mid-2011 at which time they will migrate into the new HP Software Solutions Community. We strongly encourage you to initiate new discussions via the HP Software Solutions Community now given the advance functionality that the Community encompasses.
Honored Contributor
Duncan Edmonstone
Posts: 5,678
Registered: ‎08-05-2000
Message 47 of 60 (604 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

See kevin paul's repsonse on the subject of ITRC forum changes here:

http://forums.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1461347

HTH

Duncan

HTH

Duncan
Honored Contributor
Michael Leu
Posts: 508
Registered: ‎01-17-2005
Message 48 of 60 (604 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

http://twitter.com/HP_UX_Docs/statuses/25597542137860096
"In case you missed it - sys admins: would you view hp-ux documentation on a mobile or tablet if the format were made available?"
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Acclaimed Contributor
Torsten.
Posts: 23,285
Registered: ‎10-02-2001
Message 49 of 60 (604 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

>> would you view hp-ux documentation on a mobile or tablet if the format were made available?



I would like to see the documentation in HTML again, so I can use with any client ...

Hope this helps!
Regards
Torsten.

__________________________________________________

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Honored Contributor
Michael Leu
Posts: 508
Registered: ‎01-17-2005
Message 50 of 60 (604 Views)

Re: an excellent resource replaced by worst - docs.hp.com vs. BSC

Totally agree Torsten, IMHO it should be obvious that HTML is the most usable format. Too bad, it seems to me they want to appear cool by jumping on the ebook/iPad bandwagon...
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