Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread. (470 Views)
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Exalted Contributor
Steven E. Protter
Posts: 33,806
Registered: ‎08-15-2002
Message 1 of 37 (471 Views)

2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

If you can't get in, or its very slow, or its annoying you, or you want to annoy me. Post here.

I'm kind of grumpy having to spend my first winter in North America in five years so don't go point fishing in this thread.

Seriously, if you have a problem, report the date time browser and OS you are using. Any of these factors can help HP diagnose the issue.

For moderator change requests, click here.

http://forums13.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1397612
Steven E Protter
Owner of ISN Corporation
http://isnamerica.com
http://hpuxconsulting.com
Sponsor: http://hpux.ws
Twitter: http://twitter.com/hpuxlinux
Founder http://newdatacloud.com
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Honored Contributor
Jan van den Ende
Posts: 4,537
Registered: ‎12-17-2003
Message 2 of 37 (471 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

After a long absence (hurray!), just now I got again the dreaded "System Unavailable" - 3 times in a row.
About 14:45 GMT; from the Netherlands; using Firefox on Windows 7; replying to the HPUX forum.

Proost.

Have one on me.

jpe
Don't rust yours pelled jacker to fine doll missed aches.
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Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 24,877
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 3 of 37 (471 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

>jpe: just now I got again the dreaded "System Unavailable" - 3 times in a row.

I get that all the time. I leave up firefox tabs for days/hours and it seems when it switches from forums11 to forums13, it gets upset that original URL is different.
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Outstanding Contributor
Pete Randall
Posts: 16,205
Registered: ‎11-03-1996
Message 4 of 37 (471 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

Checking for new postings first thing this morning, I looked at this thread:

http://forums13.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1403357

Since the main page says it was update today, Jan 28, I was somewhat surprised to see the latest entry dated yesterday, Jan 27.

There's been no activity in that thread at all since yesterday afternoon. Why is it near the top of the latest main page with a date of Jan 28????


Pete

Pete
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melvyn burnard
Posts: 6,068
Registered: ‎04-06-1997
Message 5 of 37 (471 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

as requested, I moved that thread earlier today. It is the result of that move that the date gets updated. They are working on preventing that, which will also stop "ancient" threads appearing at the top when I get asked to move them.
My house is the bank's, my money the wife's, But my opinions belong to me, not HP!
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Outstanding Contributor
Pete Randall
Posts: 16,205
Registered: ‎11-03-1996
Message 6 of 37 (471 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

Thanks, Melvyn. I think I asked a similar question before - with a similar answer. No wonder it seemed familiar.


Pete

Pete
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Honored Contributor
The Pike
Posts: 1,090
Registered: ‎11-27-2008
Message 7 of 37 (471 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

ServiceCenter/Service Manager posts are still annoying the heck out of Service Desk forum members having to redirect users and SC/SM folks having to re-post.

Back in October I posted a similar request in the Sept-Dec whine thread. Very aware that no immediate response was to be expected, I wonder if this will ever be changed. Even more now that Service Desk support has been extended until December 2012. I hope the Service Desk forum is renamed before both the end of support and the end of the world.

Now seriously, "OV IT Service Mgmt and Service Desk" is confusing ServiceCenter/Service Manager users. Could it be changed to "OV Service Desk" only?
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Acclaimed Contributor
James R. Ferguson
Posts: 21,184
Registered: ‎07-06-2000
Message 8 of 37 (471 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

Hi:

OK, this complaint is about the transition of the core HP-UX documentation to the BSC.

Not only do I dislike the organization and the tiny vertical alignment of the material constituting HP-UX documentation, but most importantly I can't believe that PDF files are the only presentation medium!

What happened to offering a choice of HTML and PDF? Particularly for the manpages it was very convenient to have an HTML page which acted as a table of contents where each entry was its own URL to the specific manpage. Now we have to wait for a download of an entire PDF. This is an utter waste of time and network bandwidth.

I don't call this progress at all !!!

...JRF...
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Acclaimed Contributor
James R. Ferguson
Posts: 21,184
Registered: ‎07-06-2000
Message 9 of 37 (471 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

Hi (again):

And let me add more to my rant above about this great documentation "progress":

Again, using the manpages as an example: there is no way to jump from a line in the table of contents to a specific item or page. There are NO PAGE NUMBERS associated with the elements of the table of contents! Did anyone try to *USE* this before they foisted this on the community?

I used to think (and tell people) that the HP documentation website was one of the best I'd seen (try Big Blue's for comparison). At this point, based on what I've seen today, I can no longer trumpet HP's way. You had it right and now you have it wrong.

Try looking outward to some of the GNU and other open-source websites for user-friendly documenation!

...JRF...
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Dennis Handly
Posts: 24,877
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 10 of 37 (471 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

>JRF: this complaint is about the transition of the core HP-UX documentation to the BSC.

I assume you would like me to pass your comments along. :-)

>the tiny vertical alignment of the material constituting HP-UX documentation

I'm not sure I understand this? You don't like the how the tables are laid out on the following page?
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/DocumentIndex.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&taskId=101&prodClas...

Or do you have another URL to make your point?

>Now we have to wait for a download of an entire PDF.

And no way to have a URL to a particular man page. :-(

>Did anyone try to *USE* this before they foisted this on the community?

I think for existing documentation, they just used existing PDF documents? Hopefully they will do better in the future.
I did learn you can have links in PDF documents.
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Acclaimed Contributor
James R. Ferguson
Posts: 21,184
Registered: ‎07-06-2000
Message 11 of 37 (471 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

Hi:

> Dennis: I assume you would like me to pass your comments along. :-)

I would greatly appreciate that. I believe your input might carry some weight.

> Dennis: You don't like the how the tables are laid out on the following page?
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/DocumentIndex.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&taskId=101&prodClas...

Yes, that's correct. It looks like one page has been developed and biased for mobile devices. There is a waste of good screen real estate on desktops and laptops. Compare the above page with (while it lasts) this one:

http://docs.hp.com/en/B2355-60130/index.html

Now, to be fair, upon side-by-side comparison, the width is only slightly reduced so this isn't my main annoyance.

> Dennis: And no way to have a URL to a particular man page. :-(

This is absolutely the issue I am ranting about.

> Dennis: I think for existing documentation, they just used existing PDF documents? Hopefully they will do better in the future. I did learn you can have links in PDF documents.

That's a reasonable explanation but an unreasonable choice in my opinion. HP can do better. Yes, PDF files can have hyperlinks. If there were page numbers associated with the table of content entries that alone would provide a level of navigability that is currently lacking.

Dennis, thanks for any assistance as another voice; with my warmest regards to you...

...JRF...
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Exalted Contributor
Steven E. Protter
Posts: 33,806
Registered: ‎08-15-2002
Message 12 of 37 (471 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

Shalom,

Didn't know this thread came to life.

On point assignment.

JRF -- Because I agree with him 100%

Pete -- Because he buys me beer when we meet. (Take note of that suck ups).

Basically just being random because I feel like that.

Excellent points on the documentation. If it isn't broke, why try and fix it?

SEP
Steven E Protter
Owner of ISN Corporation
http://isnamerica.com
http://hpuxconsulting.com
Sponsor: http://hpux.ws
Twitter: http://twitter.com/hpuxlinux
Founder http://newdatacloud.com
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Acclaimed Contributor
James R. Ferguson
Posts: 21,184
Registered: ‎07-06-2000
Message 13 of 37 (470 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

Hi:

It must be my month to whine.

Response from the Forums the last week or so has been intermittently slow. During the last hour this morning it has been abysmal.

It took ~18 seconds to load this thread and another ~13 seconds after clicking "reply" to get this text box. What's up (no pun intended)?

Regards!

...JRF...
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Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 24,877
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 14 of 37 (470 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

>JRF: Response from the Forums the last week or so has been intermittently slow.

I noticed it bad on the weekend. Something to do with the downtime? (There's another this Sat too.)
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Honored Contributor
Patrick Wallek
Posts: 13,736
Registered: ‎06-21-2000
Message 15 of 37 (470 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

I've got to add to JRF's complaints about the "new & improved" documentation site.

I was looking for HP9000 server documentation today. I started at docs.hp.com and followed the links and wound up at:

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Product.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&taskId=101&contentType=Su...

Which gives a list of various PA-RISC sever models.

I then selected "»HP 9000 rp2470 (A-class) Servers"

The page I wound up at had documentation that was not remotely related to a rp5470 server. The documents I was presented with are:
*****
CIFS/9000 Client Release Note, June 2002
CIFS/9000 Client Release Note, March 2002

HP DTC Cabling and Racking Guide

Configuring and Troubleshooting MS DFS links in an HP CIFS Server (Samba) Environment

DTC Device File Access Utilities and Telnet Port Identification
DTC Device File Access Utilities and Telnet Port Identification
HP DLPI Programmer's Guide
HP DLPI Programmer's Guide
rp24xx A180 User Manual
*****

Now, tell me how the majority of those documents relate to an rp2470?

The one document that could be semi-useful is the A180 manual. But even then, where are the rest of the rp2470/A500 documents?

I also get the same document list, except for the A180 doc, if I select the rp5470 link.

Where are the rest of the manuals for these servers?
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Exalted Contributor
Steven E. Protter
Posts: 33,806
Registered: ‎08-15-2002
Message 16 of 37 (470 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

I have noticed intermittent slowness this week, pretty bad Tuesday or Wednesday.

SEP
Steven E Protter
Owner of ISN Corporation
http://isnamerica.com
http://hpuxconsulting.com
Sponsor: http://hpux.ws
Twitter: http://twitter.com/hpuxlinux
Founder http://newdatacloud.com
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Esteemed Contributor
Colin Butcher
Posts: 356
Registered: ‎11-28-2003
Message 17 of 37 (470 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.



I just spent about 30 minutes typing a carefully constructed answer / explanation of some network stuff, then when I hit "submit", all I got was "Internet Explorer (V8 BTW) cannot acces the page".

To add injury to insult, everything I'd carefully typed had evaporated without trace when I returned to the page containg the web form I'd entered the text in.

For goodness sake, if the ITRC is the 'best' way that HP (or actually the HP user community) can provide support, can someone please get the thing to at least work reliably?



Cheers, Colin.

Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem (Occam's razor).
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Honored Contributor
Patrick Wallek
Posts: 13,736
Registered: ‎06-21-2000
Message 18 of 37 (470 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

Colin,

That is precisely why I do a copy of everything I just finished typing if it is a long post. Just in case.......
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Esteemed Contributor
Colin Butcher
Posts: 356
Registered: ‎11-28-2003
Message 19 of 37 (470 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

Yes, I generally do that too, but in this case, just for once, I didn't write the thing locally with a decent txt editor first.

They could of course simply ask you to upload your post as a text file, not even let you enter it into a web form in the first place :)

It's not very good.

Cheers, Colin.

Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem (Occam's razor).
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Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 24,877
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 20 of 37 (470 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

>Colin: all I got was "Internet Explorer (V8 BTW) cannot acces the page".

Perhaps you need a better browser? I seldom lose the text with firefox. I just go back, copy text, possibly open a new tab then reply again.
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Acclaimed Contributor
James R. Ferguson
Posts: 21,184
Registered: ‎07-06-2000
Message 21 of 37 (470 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

Hi:

> Dennis: Perhaps you need a better browser? I seldom lose the text with firefox. I just go back, copy text, possibly open a new tab then reply again.

I use FF exclusively now. In fact, I inadvertently closed a tab in which I had constructed a long reply to a thread here the other day. After a second's thought I clicked on "Recently Closed Tabs" and, voila, I recovered my test and was able to submit without incident.

Regards!

...JRF...
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Honored Contributor
The Pike
Posts: 1,090
Registered: ‎11-27-2008
Message 22 of 37 (470 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

I second that. Who in his/her right mind would still use MSIE with all the great browsers out there that are not target for malware?

Try Firefox and Chrome. You'll be delighted.
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Outstanding Contributor
Pete Randall
Posts: 16,205
Registered: ‎11-03-1996
Message 23 of 37 (470 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

Back to the Documentation rant:

Where the heck are the 1m man pages?

Go to the BSC location and look at the V2 and V3 section (if you can find them - sorry, you have to slowly, painfully scroll down until you can pick out the section amongst the "tiny vertical alignment").

Now look for the 1m section. You will see that it goes directly from Volume 1 and 2 (User Commands) to Volume 5 (System Calls). The 1m (System Administration) volumes are completely absent from both the V2 and V3 sections.

Or I'm blind - which is a possibility, I guess.


Pete

Pete
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Honored Contributor
Patrick Wallek
Posts: 13,736
Registered: ‎06-21-2000
Message 24 of 37 (470 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

The 1m commands manuals are down in the "User Guide" section for 11iV2 and 11iV3.

Why they put some of the man pages in the "General Reference" section and some in the "User Guide" section is the question.

I'm sure someone thought it was a good idea.

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Outstanding Contributor
Pete Randall
Posts: 16,205
Registered: ‎11-03-1996
Message 25 of 37 (470 Views)

Re: 2010 Jan-March 31 Performance/access/issue (whine) thread.

Thanks Patrick, I finally found them after Torsten pointed out the same thing. Here's my rant from the other rant thread ( http://forums11.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?admit=109447626+1267109467703+28353475&... )

If I had scrolled further I would have found out that some frickin' genius had decided to separate all of the V2 and V3 System Administration commands (Volume 3 and 4) rather than place them in between Volume 2 and Volume 5, where they belong.


Pete

Pete
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