HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility (4226 Views)
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Occasional Visitor
mchoi
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎12-02-2012
Message 1 of 20 (4,226 Views)
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HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

Are there any known compatibility issues with the HP xw4600 and the GTX 600 family?
I tried installing a GTX 650 on my workstation and it gives me a pre-video error ie. it wont go past POST . I tried installing the card on a different machine (not HP) and it worked fine. I also tested a Radeon 7770 on my machine and that worked fine also. I updated the BIOS to 1.34 and that did not solve my problem either.

Valued Contributor
Skylarking
Posts: 238
Registered: ‎04-03-2012
Message 2 of 20 (4,212 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

[ Edited ]

Just lost my post due to conncetion issue so here goes a very brief second attempt.

 

Post failure issues have occured on some dell servers when PCIe graphics cards were added. These were resolved by forcing the bios to set the number of lanes in use on the PCIe slot via jumping pins A1 (hot plug presence) and B17 or B31 or B48 or B81 (hot plug detect) depending if one wanted x1 or x4 or x8 or x16 lanes forced. See here for PCIe pin layout and this Marc Bevand blog for an explanation (towards the middle/bottom of the page) re forced downplugging.

 

Try this at your own risk but it should not cause any hardware issues if you force x16 lanes via jumping pins A1-B81 and this may just allow POST to proceed.

 

You may then need to ensure you are using the corrct drive for the card in use. That is a Quadro card needs Quadro drivers where as a GeForce card needs Geforce drivers. They are different and simply put, Quadro drivers can't be used with GeForce cards.

 

let us know how it goes.

Esteemed Contributor
Scott D. Harrison
Posts: 547
Registered: ‎10-16-2006
Message 3 of 20 (4,205 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

[ Edited ]

Maybe you're hitting a power limitation?

 

The highest power draw card I have put into a xw6400 was a FX4800, and that is a 150 watt max card, and it ran fine.

 

Scott

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mchoi
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎12-02-2012
Message 4 of 20 (4,195 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

[ Edited ]

Jumping pins A1 and B81 caused no change.
Im using 26AWG jumper wire and I don't have a multimeter handy to test if there is a solid electrical connection. Perhaps I should try downplugging to B48/31/17?

EDIT: I don't think im hitting a power limitation since the GTX650 draws less power than the Radeon HD 7770 I was testing with before.

Valued Contributor
Skylarking
Posts: 238
Registered: ‎04-03-2012
Message 5 of 20 (4,193 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

[ Edited ]

Power requirements would have been my next thought, though according to Nvidia, the GTX650 uses just 64W (yeah right)! It would be safe to expect the GTX650 would pull 75W from the PCIe slot (max allowed by PCIe spec) and a futher 75W from the 6 (2x3) pin PEG connector (again max allowed by PCIe spec) so a total of 150W seems logical and shouldn't be an issue for a workstation.

 

Why HP would write the BIOS in the may you suggest is a little odd in my view. Only rational is to determine fan speed but this should not inhibit POST, only make the machine scream loudly...

 

Hope the OP lets us know how he gets on.

 

Edit: OP posted as i was typing. You can downplug to x8 or x4 lanes with little real world loss of graphics processing. As for wire gauge, it carried only ttl signal so need not be anything substantial, just needs to make the pin to pin connection.

Occasional Visitor
mchoi
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎12-02-2012
Message 6 of 20 (4,186 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

[ Edited ]

Good news and bad news!
Good news: I got it to POST and boot into windows!


I took what you said about how there shouldnt be any peformance difference between the x8 and x16 and I plugged the GTX650 into the x8 slot and seemed to do the trick, since x8 slots are able to take an x16 length card.. just the extra pins are hanging off the side.

 

 

The workstation has 2 x16 slots, a x8 and a x1. Earlier i tried putting the graphics card into the other x16 slot, thinking that perhaps the first one was mechanically damaged, but that also caused the same pre-video error. 
My intuition says that forcing the x16 slot into x8 by jumping should work also (and I might test it later), but as of right now I'm gonna stick with this since it works.

 

For the bad news:
For future people doing the jumper trick: use smaller gauge wires. The kind of jumper wires i used as shown here seemed to have damaged my B81 pin upon closer inspection. So perhaps use 28AWG wire (I had some 30AWG, but that was too thin). I don't really mind since this an old computer, but just putting this here as a precaution before you go out and try this mod on some expensive OEM or brand name motherboard.

 

Thanks for all the help!

EDITED for minor grammar and stray words since I hastily typed this :p

Valued Contributor
Skylarking
Posts: 238
Registered: ‎04-03-2012
Message 7 of 20 (4,168 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

[ Edited ]

Good to hear you got the GTX650 working in the x8 slot though I don't know why the x16 slots don't work for you.

 

It would be interesting to know whether you can indeed get a GTX650 working in the primary x16 graphics slot by force downplugging the card to x8.

 

As for the damaged pin, that is sad to hear though you may be able to carefully work it back into shape and position but it's not easy and the pin may break. If you do get it back into shape and position, the PCIe slot should be usable again though obviously reinserting a cards will need a little more care. Personally I find my old web cam is great as a close-up view of such damage, almost like a microscope, and lets me look at such tiny things with ease as my eyes are not what they used to be.  If the pin does break, you can always solder a jumper wire between pins A1 and B48 on the graphics card itself thus forcing it to run x8 lanes and not entirely loose the slot.  I also find it preferable to modify easily removable components rather than motherboards so this is how I would implement the fix if I know that the mod will work (but unfortunately you haven't been able to confirm the mod works in your case due to the bent pin issue).

 

All in all, this make a mockery of having a PCIe standard if the standard is implemented in ways that does not allow cards to work in ALL motherboards. I can understand vendors not supporting all configurations but to design in such a way that breaks the standard is unacceptable in my view (if this is indeed what has occurred).

 

Good luck with the machine and again sad to hear of the bent pin..

 

[Edited: ran spell checker to remove my dyslexic typos]

Esteemed Contributor
Scott D. Harrison
Posts: 547
Registered: ‎10-16-2006
Message 8 of 20 (4,157 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

No one disabled those PCIe x16 slots in BIOS on you while you were not looking?  That would be a dirty trick......

Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 25,071
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 9 of 20 (4,153 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

>Just lost my post due to connection issue

 

The web page did offer to "Load" from your autosave drafts?

I also use firefox add-on "Textarea Cache" to save what I type.

Valued Contributor
Skylarking
Posts: 238
Registered: ‎04-03-2012
Message 10 of 20 (4,149 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

Scott, I agree that there is no purposeful disabling of a PCIe slot by HP as this would indeed be a dirty trick :D

 

But at some point in time one has to consider there is an issue when designing towards an industry standard results in some odd incompatibility. In such a case, either the standard is lacking and needs fixing or the design is lacking and needs fixing or the vendor needs to be clear in their equipment specifications what part of the standard they actually comply with and what part they don't.

 

In my view it's not acceptable to say because some hardware is not on a supported configuration list that an industry standard interface can not handle an industry standard compliant device. Such are the answer I often get from Dell (but less so from  HP). These things are by no means isolated to one teir1 supplier as all seems to play the game in a similar way.

 

Sadly, all this is a mere bump in the road as secure boot will result is a very Apple centric view of hardware and the customer. We will all be the poorer for such a 'secure' world unless you're the type of person that likes waiting overnight in a line to be the first to own a new 'iToy' in which case you'll be as happy an a pig in sh...tuff :) Me, i like to tinker so i like industry standards and much prefer open industry standards...

 

Dennis, nothing was offered by the web site to restore my lost words but thanks for the heads up, I will look into the "Textarea Cache" add-on.

 

Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 25,071
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 11 of 20 (4,135 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

>nothing was offered by the web site to restore my lost words

 

Nothing when you click on your own name, under "Autosave Drafts"?  You must be a fast typist.  :-)

http://h30499.www3.hp.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/1304665

Occasional Visitor
Notredamas
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎01-11-2013
Message 12 of 20 (3,990 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

Just bought a 650 GTX, how do you force downplug a video card? I tried just plugging it into the slot and it didn't work.

Valued Contributor
Skylarking
Posts: 238
Registered: ‎04-03-2012
Message 13 of 20 (3,980 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

Notredamas, the links i provided in my first post should give you details about force downplugging a PCIe card.

 

However, there is no need to force anything on the xw6400, you only need to plug your video card into the x8 PCIe slot (as it is open ended and can accept a x16 card) and the card should detect the reduced lane count and automatically configureitself appropriately.

 

This worked for mchoi, the OP, and plugging the card into the x8 slot avoids potential damage to the PCIe slot by placing wires into it, as mchoi found.

 

Cheers.

 

Occasional Visitor
Notredamas
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎01-11-2013
Message 14 of 20 (3,970 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

So the card is working now. Yea! However, none of my audio is working now. My computer is saying nothing is connected audio wise. Any suggestions on restoring sound?

Occasional Visitor
Notredamas
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎01-11-2013
Message 15 of 20 (3,955 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

JUst an update. Everything is up and running now. Thanks for the help earlier.

Occasional Visitor
lowc
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎02-13-2013
Message 16 of 20 (3,837 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

[ Edited ]

Hello there!

I have very similar problem as few above me.

I have HP Workstation xw4600 and a 1 month old Gigabyte Geforce GTX 660 (non-ti).

My problem is that I can make it work/boot and play games only when I plugged it into 4x PCI-E slot.

16x and 8x sadly doesn't work for me which is really frustrating. So now I really wonder/bother how much performance downgrade and FPS loss I have because with 3.0 16 PCI-E graphic card connected to slow 4x slot?

You think that BIOS update would be required to be able to run it at 8x PCI-E slot?  You think it will be any difference between x4 and x8?

I didn't yet updated the bios and I think I will do it today and try this out.

Valued Contributor
Skylarking
Posts: 238
Registered: ‎04-03-2012
Message 17 of 20 (3,818 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

I don't know why your card will not work in your x16 PCIe slot, maybe it is faulty in some way. However, do note that your x8 PCIe slot only has x4 lanes electrically wired to it (as designed).

 

You could try a BIOS update if your not already at the latest release but as any BIOS update has risks. I would not bother updating unless there is some comments in the BIOS release notes themselves that indicate it would resolve your problems.

 

As to your FPS anxiety, there was a review on either arstechnica or tomshardware that looked at performance of a x16 PCIe graphics card when inserted into a x16 slot while using paper to insulate some of the pins to force the card to run using less pcie lanes (down plugging). It was an interesting review but a quick google search did not locate the relevant page.

 

From memory, when running a PCIe 2.0 graphics card using all 16 lanes and then again using only using 8 lanes, the tests did not show the performance and frame rate to be negatively impacted to any significant degree. I can't remember if they also tested down to 4 lanes but I would expect some degradation to be evident when using 1/4 of the available bandwidth of a x16 card (bur that's not to say it will be 1/4 the FPS).

 

Another review on 'ars' or 'toms' also discussed the virtues of PCIe 3.0 as compared to PCIe 2.0 and the conclusion was that such PCIe 3.0 cards were of no benefit on older PCIe 2.0 systems. 

 

So, there is nothing you can do about the fact that the xw4600 does not support PCIe 3.0 cards and will have to make do with  the version actually supported (I think it's PCIe 1.1?).

 

Also, there is nothing you can do about the fact that your stuck using x4 lanes in the x8 slot as that's how your machine was designed.

 

You could look into why the x16 slot wont work if the possible performance degradation bothers you.

 

You could also run some modern graphics benchmarks against your system and compare the results to other systems to see if you have a real issue. 3DMark by Futuremark, Heaven by Unigine and Perfromance Test by PassMark Software are some graphics benchmark apps you could consider, noting that Passmark also has benchmarks charts available for comparison as does Toms hardware benchmarking charts..

 

 

Occasional Visitor
bixy
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎01-31-2014
Message 18 of 20 (2,000 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

Hi,

 

I just bought a GTX660 to insert in a xw4600. I didn't think that wil cause problem :(

 

Like you, it works fine on the 8x slot. But as you know this slot is wired at 4x.

I did some benchmarks and i don't think they are good.

The old 3DMark06 run at 30FPS in 1024 resolution with all effects on

 

I would try to make the card to run at real 8x by plug it in the 16x slot and do a wired trick.

Is it possible ?

I already tryied to rub the PRSNT#2 81 PIN to avoid auto detection as a 16x card. But still get video error

I tried to force a 8x detection with jump trick, but still again the video error

May be i need to rub all 16x pin ?

or this card cannot works in the slot16x  at all ?

Occasional Visitor
Gretopkj
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎03-27-2014
Message 19 of 20 (1,582 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

Hello.

 

Sorry for kind of necro-post.

 

Just to let you know that I have xw4600 as well and hesitate long time on how to upgrade, because of pcie express potential limitation.

 

I have seen that AMD card works better when pcie limited so I went for it.

 

I have 1.37 bios.

 

I finally bought an Sapphire R9 270 dual-x oc 2gb, which is right now the most powerful 150W card (x1  6pin connector).

 

And it works !

 

16x pcie @ 2.0.

 

The performance is on par if not a little bit over 660.

 

So maybe you can sell yours, and buy AMD.

 

I used to buy nVidia only but...

 

Only had to go to BIOS, disable AMD HDMI audio, re-enable onboard Audio which was replaced and disabled automaticely by card installation.

 

And then put "Overscanning" or so "Surbalayage" in french on 0% to fill whole screen.

 

Performance is good in my opinion and give a little more life to Q9550.

 

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/8166601
 
http://www.3dmark.com/3dmv/4994407
 
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1929849
 
http://www.3dmark.com/cg/1582792
 
http://www.3dmark.com/is/1763992
 

Pretty happy given the potential problems.

And no X38 limitation even if 2.0 16x vs 1.0 16x is the same.

 

Hope it helps.

 

 

Occasional Visitor
Belgar
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎03-31-2014
Message 20 of 20 (1,532 Views)

Re: HP xw4600 and GTX 600 series compatibility

I get the same issue with a 660GTX.

 

It works fine in a 4x (8x) port, but I get crash when the video card is very busy.

I guess it is causes by the PSU : 75W on 16X, 25W on 4-8X.

 

Can you confirm me a R9 270 Works on your computer ? then I could change my card and fix it definitively.

 

Thanks,

 

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