Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported (17848 Views)
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Scott D. Harrison
Posts: 554
Registered: ‎10-16-2006
Message 1 of 54 (17,848 Views)
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Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

[ Edited ]

 

UPDATE 5/12...... In the thread that follows, below, there is reference to the discovery of a minority of xw6400 motherboards that cannot run with 1 or 2 of the Xeon E5345 quad core processors.  That is not a defect, and at least 80% of the 25 xw6400's I have worked on can accept that E5345 processor.  HP did not sell these workstations with the assurance that all processor upgrades that work on some xw6400 motherboards would work on all xw6400 motherboards.  They officially did design these to accept a duplicate processor to the one that came with the workstation originally, assuming that it came with only one of the two processor sockets populated.  However, if a xw6400 will not accept an E5345 quad core I am happy to upgrade it to  one or two E5150's (lower power) or one or two E5160's (same power draw as the E5345).

 

Running those workstations with one or two of those dual core processors has never failed, as an alternate to the E5345, regardless of what they were originally shipped with, in my experience.

 

Remember to try to get the latest version of whatever processor you choose, and to ideally exactly match the sSpec codes if you're going to fill both of the processor sockets on the motherboard.  The price of these dual and quad core processors continues to be very attractive on eBay, and I have a known-good E5345 test processor that I use to determine if a motherboard will run nicely with that.  Now, here's the rest of the original information, with a few updates integrated as of 9/12:

 

The fastest CPU upgrade that is supported for the xw6400 is the E5345 quad core processor.  You can read all about that by doing a Google search under "xeon 5345" and looking for the intel link that has "ark" in the address.  I went for the one that has the sSpec code that is associated with the LGA771 socket (B3 stepping for that).  There are PLGA771 socket versions, and P stands for plastic, as the substrate for optimal thermal coefficient of expansion compatibility with the P version of the LGA771 socket.  However, I knew that the xw6400 socket is LGA771, not a PLGA771 socket, so I went with the sSpec code that matched the LGA771 socket version.  There is a short link list to the left on that page that will get you to the sSpec codes.  My advice now is to get the latest sSpec code (G0 version).

 

The "PLGA771" version processors will run in a LGA771 socket, and I have tested that to be the case multiple times.  The latest stepping is the G0 one, but the HP ones were the B3 stepping (LGA771 socket).  If you choose to buy two, go for the G0 stepping/SLAEJ sSpec code.  If you have one and want to add another I'd personally try to go with either two B3's (same sSpec code), or two G0's (different sSpec code than the B3, but the same matching between the two G0's).  I took the leap of faith that the PLGA771 processors would be fully compatible with the LGA771 sockets on the xw6400 motherboards, and that turned out to be correct.

 

The E5345's run at 80 watts per processor (4 cores).  The E5100 series dual cores run, generally, at 60 (edit... actually 65) watts/processor.  The exception is the E5160....running at 80 watts.

 

The E5345 essentially is two 5160's in same processor shell, automatically undervolted to keep total watts to 80.  There are some reports of running (not "supported", for sure) the higher wattage 5400's in the xw6400, but I personally would not risk that both for heat issues, and longer term motherboard component damage from the higher currents required.  (Edit..... I have now not ever seen a reliable report of this.  However, some earlier versions of the BIOS for the xw6400 may have allowed faster versions of the "X5355" and "X5365" that were intended to be run only on the xw8400 to run on the xw6400, but the later BIOS versions with their updated "microcode" seems to have removed that back door due to cooling/stability issues).

 

The original heatsink/fan for the 65 watt E5100 series processors that came with the xw6400 is the generally the same as for the 80 watt processors.  I am running two E5345's with the original heatsink/fans just fine.  Very fast, and running cool.  Thermal probing with CPUID.com's free HWMonitor shows excellent temperatures without increase in fan speed via the HP PWM fan control system.

 

Under the W7 Pro 64-bit OS (clean install via system builder CD from Newegg) and its self speed testing feature it gives the following values for both processor and memory (the values that count to me for my use) as:

 

1 5140 = 5.9

2 5140 = 7.1

2 5160 = 7.3

1 5345 = 7.1

2 5345 = 7.5

 

You can see the point of diminishing returns with the second E5345.  The 8 MB L2 cache/each E5345 is nice, and helpful, versus the 4 MB/each 5140.

 

Most bang for the buck if your xw6400 is a single dual core is to get a single used E5345 from eBay and scrap/sell your original E5100 series cpu and swap in the E5345.....that way you don't have to buy a second heatsink/fan assembly, which currently go for rough minimum of 65.00 on eBay, used.

 

So, let's say you have a single dual core E5140 getting you 5.9.  I'd try to get a used E5345 for about 110.00, and sell the E5140 later for 15.00.  Search ebay under the sSpec code you want, plus xeon.  Your total investment would be roughly 95.00 to get to 7.1.  Add in some Noctua heat sink compound from Newegg or Amazon.....thin even layer atop the top contact surface of the processor, finished off with the edge of a credit card.  Read up on how to add in a second processor from the HP PDF document, very carefully.  Finger tighten those screws in the way described, to the point where they bottom out just barely. You will see a big benefit in speed for low cost this way, with no increase in system noise.

 

Later, if you really need to, you can add in a second E5345 for about 180.00 total added cost.  Keeping your original processor for awhile gives you a level of comfort knowing that you have a good one to put back in should you get a bum used processor.  It happens, but rarely, and usually the seller will replace it, unless specified otherwise.

 

Update:  Finally got two 5160's into a tuned up xw6400 under W7 Pro 64-bit, and the processor and memory speeds were both 7.3 using the built in W7 speed testing mechanism.  Prices on used processors continue to drop, and the cost of two E5345's is amazingly low now here in September of 2012.   Read down the string...... there are some motherboards that will not support the E5345's, but running them with E5160's is a near equivalent given the higher clock speed of those dual cores.

Esteemed Contributor
Scott D. Harrison
Posts: 554
Registered: ‎10-16-2006
Message 2 of 54 (17,832 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

An update:

 

First:

I did confirm that a "PLGA771" E5345 will work fine with the xw6400's LGA771 socket, by buying one off eBay and trying it out.  I had found earlier by web search that the "P" designation seems to mean plastic, and the plastic substrate of one of those PLGA 771 processors is matched to the plastic substrate of a PLGA771 socket in terms of thermal coefficient of expansion and contraction.  That matching is not necessary, for usual use, and the pins/lands for the PLGA771 and LGA 771 processors/sockets are compatible.

 

Second:

 

My prior post in this thread had a small mistake.....the dual core processors sold by HP for the xw6400 below the 5160 designation are 65 watts, not 60 watts, each.  The 5160 dual core is 80 watts each.  The quad cores are 80 watts each.

 

For example, from Intel, for a 5140, look at the Max TDP wattage of 65, down towards the bottom:

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=27217

 

For a 5150, also 65 watts:

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=27218

 

For a 5160 (fastest Dual Core for the xw6400), the wattage increases to Max TDP=80 watts:

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=27219

 

For a 5345, the fastest Quad Core officially supported in the xw6400, the Max TDP=80 watts also:

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=28032

 

A great article that goes into the details of how Intel accomplished melding two of the 80 watt dual core processors into one quad core processor housing, and yet running it at 80 watt TDP can be found at:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2143

 

What I would take away from this and my prior post is:

 

If I wanted to keep my total processor wattage at the lowest value that would give me a W7 performance value of 7.1 for processor and memory performance I would choose a single 5345 (80 watts total) over two 5140's (65 watts each, 130 watts total).  Plus, I would thereby save the cost of a second heatsink/fan assembly, and the noise cost of a second processor fan, to boot.

 

Or,if I wanted to spend significantly more money for a relatively small added boost in performance I would add in a second matching 5345 with its heatsink/fan/noise..... (which is what I did as part of this experiment).

 

This is a great workstation when it is "souped up" this way, by either method

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Scott D. Harrison
Posts: 554
Registered: ‎10-16-2006
Message 3 of 54 (17,830 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

[ Edited ]

Second update:

 

Some added research yielded a HP document regarding "stepping" updates to both the dual core and the quad core processors officially supported by HP in the xw6400 (document ID: c01123933).  The older processors were either the B2 or B3 steppings.  The newer steppings are G0.  The list of those newer processors and steppings is in the document, and they include the 65 and the 80 watt versions of the dual cores, and the 80 watt version of the quad core (the only wattage for HP-supported quad cores for this workstation was 80 watts).  Their model names did not change (the newer and older versions of E5345 processors are still termed E5345, for example).

 

Of interest, at the bottom of the document the description of BIOS versions which provide support for which processor steppings clearly states that the newest BIOS can support a mix of the older and the newer steppings.  I have previously recommended at least having the same stepping if you are adding in a second processor, and ideally even having the identical sSpec codes on the two processors.  Here is the quote regarding what BIOS version (or higher) is needed to unlock the full interchangability of the different same-model processors:

 

"System BIOS v 2.24 (and higher) on both the HP xw6400 and xw8400 Workstation will support single (B2,B3), dual (B2,B3), single G0, dual G0 or mixed (B2,B3)/G0 stepping processors."

 

Please note that the xeon E5355 is on that list of processors that were upgraded by Intel.....but that processor is for the xw8400, not the xw6400.  You can confirm this by looking at the latest xw6400 QuickSpecs document, from 2008.  Search the pdf under "quad-core", and you will see the list of quad cores that are supported by HP for being installed in the xw6400.  The E5355 is a 120 watt processor, is not on that QuickSpec listing, and the xw6400 officially supports only up to 80 watts per processor.  I would personally not try that processor on an xw6400 unless I was willing to fry the motherboard (immediately or eventually).

 

An example of how this all works:  The three sSpec codes for an E5345 quad core processor (the fastest quad core officially supported for this workstation) are SLAC5, SL9YL (both B3 stepping), and SLAEJ (the latest one released and termed "G0" stepping.  This is  the only stepping still available from Intel as of May 2011 to buy new).  Based on the new information in the document one can mix an older SL9YL (B3 stepping) with the newest SLAEJ (G0 stepping).  The latest BIOS for the xw6400 is currently 2.38 from December 2010, and the motherboard's BIOS can be upgraded easily from within W7 or XP Pro.

 

You can probe the stepping of an installed processor by using the freeware CPU-Z, from CPUID.com.  The stepping is listed under the "Revision" heading of the first page in CPU-Z (not under the Stepping heading just above ....go figure).  If you see B3 you will have either a SLAC5 or a SL9YL sSpec code E5345 processor.  If you see G0 there you have a SLAEJ sSpec code E5345 processor.  I do not know of a way to get the sSpec codes from software.  The sSpec code is included in the laser-etched information on the top metal face of the processor where it contacts the heat sink.  By the way, the free HWMonitor from same source is handy for probing xw6400 fan speeds and memory/motherboard/processor temperatures.  GPU-Z is also free, and great for probing ATI and NVidia vidoeo card properties and temperatures.

 

I would still prefer to match sSpec codes when adding a second processor, and it is not a bad idea to apply new thermal paste to the first processor as a part of the process (the purists say it degrades, as does Intel).  I would now be less concerned about mixing same model processors with different sSpec codes but the same stepping value, having read the HP document.  I guess I should not even worry about mixing different sSpec codes and different steppings, now, but will avoid that if possible.

 

Finally, I like to clean processors of thermal paste with paper towels first, then 70% or higher % isopropal alcohol, and do fine tuning with 100% cotton q-tips dampened with alcohol.  Do not submerge the processor.....that metal cover is open at its bottom edge.  If there is paste on the little gold contact pads you can get that off with the q-tips.  Don't have dripping quantities of alcohol, just damp enough to get the job done, rather than have any alcohol running where you don't want it.  Have the processor laid out for work on a 100% cotton towel.  Static electricity is not your friend here.

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georgesteppelt
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎05-24-2011
Message 4 of 54 (17,799 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

Use relative dates (three hours ago) as a default setting is just not very well thought out. After some time the comments date settles at weekdays. 

Esteemed Contributor
Scott D. Harrison
Posts: 554
Registered: ‎10-16-2006
Message 5 of 54 (17,773 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

Thank you, George.  I did not know of that preference option.....it was the default that came with my account, and I agree that having the actual dates (rather than relative dates) is better.  So, changed to that, and it retroactively fixed things. 

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skavan
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎06-26-2011
Message 6 of 54 (17,707 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

Actually, I think the fastest processor is actually the X5365 @ 3.00GHZ.

I have two running in my xw8400...

 

I was kinda hoping that the X5470 or perhaps the X5492 might also work - but have no evidence of this being teh case.

 

s.

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taggart_seattle
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎09-06-2011
Message 7 of 54 (17,519 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

Will the low power versions of the Xeon 5400 cpus work in the xw6400? Here's more info at wikipedia

 

In particular I want to use the low power (L) versions, like the L5430. Compared to the 5150 I have currently this cpu would be

* more cores (4 vs 2)

* lower power (50W vs 65W)

* more cache (12m vs 4m)

 

The socket is lga771 in both cases, but I can't find any info on if it's compatible.

 

Thanks.

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Scott D. Harrison
Posts: 554
Registered: ‎10-16-2006
Message 8 of 54 (17,501 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

[ Edited ]

I had chosen to only use the processors that HP had certified for use on the xw6400 in my experiments.  Thus, I have loaded up two of the fastest dual cores certified (5160's), and two of the fastest quad cores certified (5345's).  So far have tuned up about 10 xw6400's this way, and no problems at all.

 

I am running these in Windows 7 Pro, 64 bit, and also in XP Pro, 32 bit.  Just this evening the L5430's on eBay goes for from 320.00 up to over 885.00 US, each.

 

I have been buying eBay used quad core 5345's recently for 50.00 each, free shipping (you have to be patient and hunt).  To me that is the way to go, given the cost of the processors, and the risk either to the processors or the motherboard by not going with the HP recommendations, which you can read on page 15 from the most recent xw6400 quickspecs PDF I could find:

http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/12505_ca/12505_ca.PDF

 

My gut instinct is that you probably could pull off what you want given that the socket is identical.  Do note that BIOS upgrades have made it possible to install 2 mismatched processors, so something in BIOS might keep you from doing this if the processor is probed by BIOS for specific identifiers .  And, be willing to lose the processor and the motherboard in the test.

 

What I have noticed is that there is no indication during boot that you have changed from one set of processors to the next, versus what happens when you put in most other new significant hardware.  You certainly can see and feel the difference, and document the changes via task manager, etc., after these hardware upgrades.

 

The fastest HP approved dual quad cores for this workstation, 5345's, are quite an upgrade.  I am using these for teleradiology, Dragon 10.1 Medical, and voice recognition is impressive with those running under 64 bit W7, with 8 GB of HP server RAM.  I'd advise doing that rather than experimenting with an uncertified processor at the costs noted.

 

I use the Noctua thermal compound, and got a 9" long t handle T15 torx driver from McMaster.com (item 6963A22) for the long reach down to the heat sink screws.  Follow the torque sequence you can find by searching for the HP document on how to do a processor upgrade for this workstation......it is not intuitive.  Don't unscrew the spring loaded screws fully out of the heatsink base.... just until they disengage from the motherboard.... they will spring up about an eighth of an inch when disengaged but not fly out.  Don't forget to replug in the heatsink fan.

 

Always upgrade the BIOS before stating anything, to the latest.  If W7 install, turn on virtualization in the OS security section of BIOS.  It is ideal to have BIOS set to RAID + AHCI under the SATA emulation BIOS section for both XP and W7 during clean installs, but be prepared to dink around with a floppy and F6 driver install technique for XP, and hope for the best with your DVD reader for W7 (some of the DVD readers from HP in the 6400 are not W7 compliant when BIOS is set to RAID + AHCI during a clean install, but will work if that is changed to Standard or Separate in BIOS during the clean install..... then you can use the MS gem to get around that by using this fixit:

 

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922976

 

And, then switch BIOS to RAID + AHCI after doing a full reboot from cold shutdown after applying this auto-fix.  I use the system builder OEM version of W7 Professional 64 bit version for these installs, from Newegg.com.

 

Cross-flashing HP DVD ROM drives with other manufacturer's W7 firmware upgrades to make them W7 compliant, and using the COA XP Pro serial numbers with the proper 2 HP CD-ROMs for clean XP installs is a whole other set of topics....... 

 

Please let us know if you do this project, and the outcome.

 

Best,

 

Scott

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Scott D. Harrison
Posts: 554
Registered: ‎10-16-2006
Message 9 of 54 (17,502 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

[ Edited ]

If you compare the HP QuickSpecs for the xw8400 to the link in my post above, related to the QuickSpecs from HP for the xw6400, you will see the differences in the HP-certified processor upgrades for these two workstations.  Here is for the 8400:

 

http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/12522_ca/12522_ca.PDF

 

The two fastest quad cores for the 8400 listed in its quickspec are the xeon 5355 and 5365......however, the fastest HP-certified quad core for the 6400 listed in its quickspec tops out at the xeon 5345.

 

If you google under "xeon 5345" etc, you will find that one of the top results is an Intel site with "ark" at the beginning of the address, and click on those links for each processor, sequentially.  You will see that the max power use for the 5345 is 80 watts, and that for the X5355 is 120 watts, and for the X5365 it is 150 watts.  I could not find a X5345, and a non-X 5355 or 5365.

 

I'm thinking that the larger 8400 case may have more cooling capacity, and that if you could find a version of the 5355 or 5365 quad cores that HP sold for the 8400 they likely would work in the 6400, but not be within the cooling capacity range of the smaller 6400 case.  I don't know if the top 2 hottest quads for the 8400 came with different heatsink/fan than all the rest for the 8400 processors, which are identical to all of the heatsinks/fans for the 6400's.

 

I have a recollection of reading that the X designator meant something important.....maybe that these were processors "binned" as being able to run faster but which needed higher voltages to run at those speeds.  Hence, the higher wattage for them.

 

If you search for the prices of used 5345's versus the faster ones there is a big jump up for the last two.  So, for cost reduction, heat reduction, and HP-certified processor compatibility I'm personally going to stick with the 5345 quad core in my fastest xw6400 builds. 

 

Best,

 

Scott

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taggart_seattle
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎09-06-2011
Message 10 of 54 (17,496 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

Hi Scott,

 

Thanks for the info. I am currently seeing L5420's for $125 and less on ebay. My goal is getting an upgrade while keeping the wattage the same or less (I use this computer in my home office), so heat shouldn't be an issue. So if this cpu will work it will mean doubling cores, increasing cache, and a clock speed bump all for _less_ power. Sounds like a deal for $125.

 

I did a little more searching after posting my question and the xw6400 uses the Intel 5000x chipset. This page

seems to indicate that the L54xx cpus should work with the chipset. So it's really a question if the HP BIOS is going to do the right thing.

 

There are 50W version of the 53xx (L5310, L5320, L5335) but they are slower and less cache than the L54xx ones. But that would be the _safe_ way to go. But I think it might be worth a $125 gamble...

 

I'll let you know what I end up doing.

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scrubjay
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎09-25-2011
Message 11 of 54 (17,418 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

I am also interested in putting L5420 processors in a xw8400 workstation. Any info on your progress would be appreciated.

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Scott D. Harrison
Posts: 554
Registered: ‎10-16-2006
Message 12 of 54 (17,360 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

Here's what the experiment could and should be.  Buy a used E5450, which is the fastest quad core certified for the xw6600 and see if it will run in a xw6400.  If it will, will two?  The newer generation E5450 and the older generation E5345 both ran at 80 watts each.  Both ran in the same socket.  Will the newest BIOS for the xw6400 possibly accept that newer processor?

 

I'd start with one, and if that works then two almost certainly would work.  Anyone interested in doing the test?

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cosbovfx
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎10-09-2011
Message 13 of 54 (17,336 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

Hi, I have been learning alot from reading these posts. 

 

I have 2 xw6400, they are both 5150 singles, and would like to upgrade them to e5345 duals,  I use them in my render farm for 3D animation.  I have been looking on ebay for processors, and came across a matched pair for e5345's but they had an s spec of QWTW,  the stepping is still GO.  Does anyone know if they will work in the xw6400?  Any help would be appreciated.



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Scott D. Harrison
Posts: 554
Registered: ‎10-16-2006
Message 14 of 54 (17,323 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

[ Edited ]

You are looking at a "qualification sample" code there...... I personally would go for something else.  You can go to the intel source for this info by google under "E5345 Xeon" and find the result that starts with ark.  Then in the left column go to the link for sSpec.  On the resulting page you will see the production sSpec codes, and the latest is the SLAEJ.

 

Note that some of the sockets mention PLGA771 and others mention LGA771..... don't worry about that.  The "P" refers "plastic" that is virtually identical to the plastic in the socket so that the coefficient of thermal expansion/contraction are matched.  The processors all work fine in the xw6400 regardless of whether they are listed as PLGA or LGA versions.

 

Attached are 3 pics..... a scan of a SLAEJ I had handy, the capture of the intel production sSpec code page from the ark site, and the answer on what the Q means in the code you mentioned.  I would assume the Q codes are not processors to fully trust.  See the note at the bottom of the picture for attached image 3.

 

I would not personally only buy a SLAEJ..... but would if it was cheapest.  The other two are excellent also.  Finally, it probably is best to get matching sSpec codes, but the info on the latest two versions of BIOS from HP for the xw6400 says you can mix and match sSpec codes (I covered that in another post, including an image capture from the official HP statement).

 

However, I still only stick in the same sSpec codes if I'm going to run two processors just to be safest.  As I have posted in the past just one E5345 gets you the most bang for the buck, and putting in two gets you well beyond the point of diminishing returns in terms of heat production, noise, and cost.  Having said that, I fed two to my favorite xw6400.

 

Finally, I added the HP PDF re dinking with the processors.  Also, see my other post re 6600 versus 6400 heatsinks, where some pictures of the process are included.

 

Hope this helps, Scott

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cosbovfx
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎10-09-2011
Message 15 of 54 (17,276 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

I went ahead  and bought the Engineering Sample (ES) e5345 2.33 QWTW Chips.  They were only $60 for 2.  I have had them in one of my xw6400 since thursday, and have had them rendering for about 60hrs at 100% cpu usage and everything seems to be working just fine.  I think I might try and get a matched pair of ES e5440's for my xw6600 now.

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dumpystig
Posts: 42
Registered: ‎09-17-2011
Message 16 of 54 (17,272 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

[ Edited ]

cosbovfx wrote:

 I think I might try and get a matched pair of ES e5440's for my xw6600 now.


 

I have just purchased the same for my xw6600 a couple of hours ago. Should have them in a week,  but I now  need   another heatsink/fan combo to match the one already fitted to my existing single E5405. I will let you know how things go.

 

I'm interested if anyone has this part - HP P/N: 446358-001, manufactured by Foxconn, P/N: 446358-001 REV.A.

Please let me know.

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taggart_seattle
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎09-06-2011
Message 17 of 54 (17,241 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

I bought an L5420 for $60 on ebay. When I installed it in the machine the system fails to POST. I tried with both firmware 2.35 and 2.38a(current latest). I suppose it's possible the processor I got is bad, I have no other systems I can test it in.

 

It would be good if someone from HP could confirm if this is expected to work or is a BIOS fix is needed to enable this processor.

 

I have to get my POST test card back from the person I loaned it to so see if I can get more info on why it's not coming up. I'll reply when I have more info.

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lexami
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎11-02-2011
Message 18 of 54 (17,243 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

Dear all,

 

I'm very confused because my XW6400 can't support E5345 cpu. I checked many things by replacing components (till the systeme boad, using the last bios) and use different testbench softwares to analyse the component's behavior.  The workstation is still unstable : 922 - Fatal error on Front Side Bus... and it happens always when I stress the cpu. The only solution that it provide few improvment is by cooling more the northbridge.

 

After many test and search, it seems to me that the motherboard can not support 1333MHz FSB. That is confirmed by the description of the motherboard by HP sparepart store : 436925-001 or 442029-001 System board (motherboard) - Intel Xeon CPU support (Woodcrest), 1066 MHZ front side bus (that is strange because I bought my workstation with E5160 cpu that is dual core with 1333MHz FSB). Another systemboard is listed with the indication that it is compatible with 1333MHz FSB (Seaburg) 440307-001, but this one seems use only on few XW6400 and it's same as the motherboard use on most of the XW6600 workstation. We can certainly conclude that this last systemboard can support cpu till the E5450.

 

I contact the HP support but unfortunetly, after couple of normal email exchanges then provide the details of my workstation configuration, I sudenly receive an email from a machine to say that the topic is closed without anymore help or explanation. That is not fair.

 

My questions to the community are :

- what is the SP# and AS# of your motherboard using E5345 ?

- do you get any blue screen when you stress the processor using test software ?

(ex : http://www.ocbase.com/perestroika/index.php?Download)

- do you have any idea about my unstable xw6400 workstation ?

 

Other resources :

380689-001 system board maybe dooesn't support all cpu (I have the revision -002)

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=c00751610&lang=en&cc=us&taskI...

 

Following that document, X6400 should support officialy up to E5355

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=c01123933&lang=en&cc=us&taskI...

Esteemed Contributor
Scott D. Harrison
Posts: 554
Registered: ‎10-16-2006
Message 19 of 54 (17,213 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

[ Edited ]

This is timely, as I am just now seeing that for the first time.  I have loaded E5345's into a number of xw6400's, most of which I don't now have access to for checking the assembly/spare numbers stamped on the motherboards.  The one I have here that is running two E5345's has, below the memory slots, the following (this is a regular 5000X chipset xw6400 motherboard, not a Seaburg chipset motherboard):

 

SP# 442029-001

AS# 380689-003

Rev 0P

 

From the one that is getting that FSB fatal error:

 

SP# 436925-001

AS# 380689-002

Rev 0L

 

I think the fatal error is due to a true hardware/BIOS bug causing a small subset of the regular xw6400 motherboards to not run well with the E5345's.  For example, from an older post that I found when searching on this, edited a bit for clarity:

 

"The issue happens with an older version of the xw6400 motherboard when combined with Intel Xeon 5335 2.00 8MB/1333 or Intel Xeon 5345 2.33 8MB/1333 processors.  Please call HP and inform them regarding the issue.  HP would replace the systemboard with the newer version/compatible of the same."

 

By the way, I would not expect HP to be sending out any free replacement motherboards at this late date.

 

Whether that is true or not I don't know, and it would take quite a bit of work to test a known good E5345 with a bunch of spare xw6400's.  My advice in your case is to go back to two 5160's for that motherboard.  By the way, the program I found that would cause the fatal error within seconds is Prime95, running default values in its stress test mode.  You can look up Prime95..... it has been around for many years, and is well respected, well known and from a safe source.

 

Regarding the 1066 versus 1333 issue..... some of the Xeons certified by HP for the xw6400 are 1066 and some are 1333.  The "chipset" for all the xw6400 motherboards I have ever seen is the Intel 5000X, and it can handle 1066 and 1333 Xeon processors assuming they are the correct ones, and supported by the HP microcode part of BIOS (the HP listing there of the specific processors allowed to boot).

 

The Seaburg motherboard chipset used in the xw6600 (and listed as being usable in a small subset of the xw6400's) is a different beast...... it can handle 1066 and 1333 Mhz Xeon processors, with same assumptions.  Yes, you can put a xw6600 motherboard into a xw6400 box if that box has a different riveted on backplane (the rear ports are in different positions on the two motherboards).  Yes, HP does sell and even list that xw6600 motherboard for use in a xw6400, and some of the listings seem to imply that some xw6400's came with that from the factory.  I have never seen one in a xw6400, however, and I have been inside a bunch.  The different chipset on that xw6600 motherboard would indicate that the Xeons for it would be from the listed set for the xw6600 from the QuickSpecs for that.  I just don't know for sure not having ever seen one of those "non-standard" motherboards in a xw6400.

 

Here's the take home:  I now believe that a small minority of the xw6400 5000X chipset based motherboards have a hardware/BIOS bug that will not let them run in a stable fashion with the E5345's.  Given that I am getting used E5345's off eBay for 50.00 I still think it is worth the small risk to try.  If a motherboard can't run the E5345 then switch over to the E5160 instead.

 

Scott

Esteemed Contributor
Scott D. Harrison
Posts: 554
Registered: ‎10-16-2006
Message 20 of 54 (17,134 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

[ Edited ]

Here's the latest on the motherboard project..... the E5345 that could not run on that motherboard was transplanted into another motherboard, and it ran just fine.  Points to a motherboard/processor compatibility "issue" that the other post I referenced above talks about, and yet I have never seen an official comment on this from HP.  Below is the rundown on xw6400 motherboards that have and have not worked with the E5345.  Note that there are two sites on the motherboards that have what seems to be identifying info regarding the exact model/revision.  One is abbreviated and below the slot 1 of the PCIe bus....between slot one and two.  This has been populated in some of my motherboards, and empty in others.  Thus, I'll consider the second site to be more official, and that is located underneath the memory fan shroud, just to the right of the bank of memory slots.  That always has had info in it, and HP has a numbering system that includes Assembly and Spare part numbers.  Sometimes these are termed AS# and SP#.  I don't really know why they do that.  Of interest, in this area there always has been even an added bit of data, the revision number.

 

Did not work with E5345:

 

SP# 436925-001  (the E5345 worked perfectly in the motherboard listed below)

AS# 380689-002

Rev 0L

 

Did work with E5345:

 

SP# 442029-001  (this is running the E5345 that would not work in the motherboard above)

AS# 380689-003

Rev 0U

 

SP# 442029-001  (running two E5345's fine)

AS# 380689-003

Rev 0P

 

SP# 442029-001  (running two E5345's fine)

AS# 380689-003

Rev 0P

 

 

I have others that are running the E5345 processors fine also, but can't get to them to check their motherboards.  So far only one has had this problem, and it runs perfectly with 2 5160's and 2 5150's (fast dual cores, with the 5160's being 80 watts, and the 5150's being 65 watts).

 

So, it is not that the motherboard is bad...... it is excellent, and I have hammered it with Prime95 64-bit install stress testing.  It just does not want to run the E5345's.  Remember that the clock speed of the E5345 is equivalent to the 5140 dual core (2.33 MHz) and slower than the 5150 (2.66) and the 5160 (3.00).  So, I'm very happy to run that motherboard with either of those last two, and it sure seems as fast or perhaps even faster than the slower clock 5345.  Lots of programs simply don't seem to benefit noticably from the quad cores.

 

By the way, Prime95 is a great way to drive the processors at 100% nonstop for hours on end.  It runs from within Windows, and you can stop the test when you wish.  Many of the overclockers use it to do the stress testing to see if their processors and motherboards can run at high utilization without generating errors.  I also use this to stress my systems to see how the cooling is going, and how hot things get (running HWMonitor simultaneously, and also watching all cores working 100% thru use of the MS Task Manager.  I also use GPU-z to check my video card performance.

 

Attached are some pics of these tools for those who don't know about them.  Have been using them for years, with no problems.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Scott

 

Esteemed Contributor
Scott D. Harrison
Posts: 554
Registered: ‎10-16-2006
Message 21 of 54 (17,072 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

[ Edited ]

I have received an email from Mark (Dumpystig) that discusses his receipt of two matched "evaluation sample" processors for his xw6600 project....... E5440's I believe.  These "EV" processors appear to have left him with a condition where his internal fans are running very fast/loud.

 

I believe these would also be termed "qualification samples" similar to what was mentioned above.  I would like to know the sSpec codes for those (laser etched on the top stainless shell of each processor) and officially they are either SLBBJ or SLANS for the E5440.  That is straight from Intel.  Not a Q-based code, for sure.

 

I have seen notices from HP in the past of downloadable updates for workstations that enables them to recognize/work with new processors that did not exist when the workstation initially was released.  However, I can't find an example of that right now.  My recollection is that the updater would modify a lookup table that BIOS refers to, at a primitave level of bootup.  This updater was different from an actual BIOS update.

 

Mark may be dealing with a circumstance where his lookup table does not include his sSpec code (which might start with Q), and then the BIOS might default to protecting a processor that it does not fully recognize by turning the fans on high.

 

It would be great if an expert on such issues could add in some knowledge here on this issue.

 

I still am sticking with only using release version sSpec code processors, even if an "EV" version with a Q sSpec code is half the price.

 

 

Occasional Visitor
Levak_Bob
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎01-18-2012
Message 22 of 54 (16,809 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

Hi, I have the same problem. I would buy Xeon 5420 but do not know if it will work. It works together?

Thanks Radek

Esteemed Contributor
Scott D. Harrison
Posts: 554
Registered: ‎10-16-2006
Message 23 of 54 (16,708 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

Bob,

 

Get a copy of the QuickSpecs for your workstation......I assume it is a xw6400.  You will see that in the processors listed for that the 5420 is not listed.

 

Waste of time.

 

If you want a quad core try one used E5345 off eBay.....SLAEJ sSpec..... If one works then get two.  I have posted in the past that some of the xw6400 motherboards will not work with E5345's.   If that is the case and if you want a dual core I think two of the E5150 processors are the sweetspot.  Next step up is the 5160..... two of these generally cost more.

Regular Visitor
Sepiriz
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎05-26-2012
Message 24 of 54 (15,669 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

Hi Scott

Excellent thread!

I have an xw6400 running W7 Ultimate. The machine runs sweetly with no problems, but as is the way with a serial geek, I have recently bought a second CPU that exactly matches my existing one (E5345 2.33Ghz) and wanted to see what performance jump Iwould get.

Unfortunately when I installed the new CPU (which I double checked with the serials on was exactly the same as the existing one) the machine fails to boot and sits at the blue HP screen indefinitely. It hangs just before the "Press any Key for Rom Messages" text pops up.

I tried the new CPU in the first CPU position and it works, so the CPU is not faulty. The new heatsink I bought also works OK as I tried it in the CPU-1 position.

I was wondering if you had any ideas why the machine won't pick up the 2nd CPU? After some google searches I was leaning towards maybe the power supply needing to be beefier?

Is there anything you can think of or would share with me as to where I should start on my project to get the second CPU to pick up?

Many thanks

Sep

Esteemed Contributor
Scott D. Harrison
Posts: 554
Registered: ‎10-16-2006
Message 25 of 54 (15,642 Views)

Re: Adding processor to the xw6400 - fastest Quad Core supported

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Hi Scott  Excellent thread!

I have an xw6400 running W7 Ultimate. The machine runs sweetly with no problems, but as is the way with a serial geek, I have recently bought a second CPU that exactly matches my existing one (E5345 2.33Ghz) and wanted to see what performance jump Iwould get.

Unfortunately when I installed the new CPU (which I double checked with the serials on was exactly the same as the existing one) the machine fails to boot and sits at the blue HP screen indefinitely. It hangs just before the "Press any Key for Rom Messages" text pops up.

I tried the new CPU in the first CPU position and it works, so the CPU is not faulty. The new heatsink I bought also works OK as I tried it in the CPU-1 position.

I was wondering if you had any ideas why the machine won't pick up the 2nd CPU? After some google searches I was leaning towards maybe the power supply needing to be beefier?

Is there anything you can think of or would share with me as to where I should start on my project to get the second CPU to pick up?

Many thanks

Sep>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Sep..... somehow your post ended up in the middle of the thread, despite being posted a day ago.  Add to the end of the thread, generally, or people won't be able to easily find your input.  Here's some ideas:

 

First, have you loaded the latest BIOS for that workstation?  That has good stuff integrated into it, including things that people don't usually think of as being part of a BIOS upgrade.

 

Second, it is not a problem with the power supply in my opinion, unless that thing is on its last legs.  I have never had the stock HP power supply of a xw6400 act this way when I added in two E5345's.  If you want to try a new power supply I'd go for one from the xw6600...... higher wattage and 80% efficiency, and was available as an expensive option for the xw6400.  Same size, same plugs, and I just ordered one off eBay for 50.00, accepted on a Or Best Offer from a site that had 43 more.  Nice to have a spare.

 

It's hard to believe that a memory problem could do this.

 

Is BIOS set properly?  I have posted a Replicated Setup file that I use for making clones of what the settings are that I use for my xw6400's.  Replicated setup technique is handy do know about if you're wanting to keep BIOS settings straight, and it is easy to do from a USB drive.  I turn off boot from USB devices in BIOS, and sometimes you have to reboot with the USB drive in a couple of times before you can F10 into that in the first column of BIOS.

 

Take a quick look at this in BIOS:  Go to Advanced column, and down to Processors.  Make sure that is set to Disable..... Limit max value to 3 should be disabled.  I have never seen it set to enabled, but someone may have messed with that in the past.

 

Attached is my BIOS Replicated Setup file, and these work for both W7 and XP.  You should save yours before loading mine, so you can go back if you wish.  My SATA emulation is set to Raid + AHCI, and that will work with the HP clone installs that came with the workstation from HP, but you have to install drivers for that properly in XP clean installs, or have that set in BIOS ahead of time with clean W7 installs (or the driver won't get installed and when you boot with this set like I do you'll crash either of the OS's).  It is an easy fix with W7; it is a reinstall (or change SATA emulation back to to Separate or Combined) for XP.

 

A side tip:  I have a good friend who installed W7Pro64 a few weeks back onto a SSD for his xw6400, and did not know the value of the advanced capabilities with the AHCI drivers.  He had his SATA emulation set to Separate during the clean install.  As such the AHCI drivers were not installed from the W7 DVD.  He was thrilled with his SSD, but even more thrilled when his SSD scores literally doubled by getting the AHCI drivers on properly, and changing BIOS to RAID+ AHCI.  For W7 it takes a little MS FixIt that you can find if you need it by google W7 AHCI FixIt.

 

Good luck, and keep us posted.  You might want to start another thread for your specific issue, by the way, which will get you some added expertise from others.

 

Scott

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