MicroServer Gen8 is noisy (13798 Views)
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Occasional Visitor
Rici11
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎11-08-2013
Message 51 of 287 (3,061 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

I have opened a ticket as well regarding the same issue, both in AHCI mode and in Legacy SATA.

 

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Occasional Visitor
Goma78
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎11-10-2013
Message 52 of 287 (2,987 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

Same problem here.

 

Microserver without SmartArray too noisy :(

 

Waiting a solution from HP.

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Esteemed Contributor
paulgear
Posts: 655
Registered: ‎04-03-2011
Message 53 of 287 (2,833 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

[ Edited ]

Thanks to all for documenting their experiences with this issue.  I bought a G1610T Gen8 Microserver with the express purpose of reducing noise in my office and was very disappointed with the results.  Now that I know there's a bug I can be a little more patient.

 

I moved a Debian Wheezy (7.2) setup with software RAID 1 into my G1610T, so I naturally chose AHCI when I installed - other iLO settings are at the defaults.  Is there a way to choose the built-in RAID controller but still have Linux see them as individual drives, and without overwriting any data on the drives?  i.e. Can you set up the RAID controller as JBOD?  That might be a suitable workaround for me.

 

I eventually found how to submit a support case (when are HP going to work out that their web site needs major work?) and opened a new case as Jimmy suggested.  Here's hoping for some progress in the near future!

Regards,
Paul
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Esteemed Contributor
paulgear
Posts: 655
Registered: ‎04-03-2011
Message 54 of 287 (2,822 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

Hi all,

HP just got back to me about the support case I logged, and the tech tried to convince me that the issue was the third-party hard disks I have installed (which don't have compatible temperature sensors).  Has anyone

  1. been told the same thing, or
  2. seen any evidence that putting HP branded hard disks in the system has an effect on the situation?
Regards,
Paul
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Honored Contributor
Jimmy Vance
Posts: 1,486
Registered: ‎11-27-2006
Message 55 of 287 (2,802 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

Paul, currently the "hpvsa" driver required for the B120i/B320i Dynamic RAID controller is not available for Debian/Ubuntu.

 

To answer you other questions, it is possible to create 4 individual RAID arrays each with a single logical disk volume to simulate JBOD.

 

Creating a RAID array will destroy the existing data on the disk(s)

 

As for the answer you received from 1st level support, you can always ask to speak to a supervisor and/or ask for your case to be escalated to 2nd level support.  For this particular issue you can ask the support person to contact me internally.

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Esteemed Contributor
paulgear
Posts: 655
Registered: ‎04-03-2011
Message 56 of 287 (2,788 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

Thanks Jimmy.

 

I've been reading some more links: Document ID c03742583 makes it clear that the B120i is a fake RAID, and Document ID c03871499 makes it clear that only Red Hat and SUSE are supported targets for its driver.  If they don't offer a firmware update to fix the issue in AHCI mode soon, I think I'll return my Microserver and ask for my money back.  This sort of situation proves that they're not serious about Linux support.

 

Any word on the firmware update?

Regards,
Paul
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Frequent Advisor
subsix
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎09-15-2013
Message 57 of 287 (2,750 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

@Paul, I had very similar discussions here in Germany with the HP support. I was told that HP would require 100% genuine parts to be able to process the support case. In my case HP agreed to supply a genuine HP disk for testing on my Gen8 Microserver. Using that did not change the behavior at all. Furthermore, I have WD Red drives installed at this very moment and iLO has no issues reading the temperature sensors. These seem to work equally well.

 

In RAID mode I get 6-9% fan speed (in the iLO web console) with 2 WD Red disks and 29-32% fan speed in AHCI mode.

 

To add to that: I've tried HGST 2.5" Enterprise SATA drives initially (lower noise and power consumption). iLO was unable to get temperature information from these drives...

 

Peter

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Frequent Advisor
subsix
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎09-15-2013
Message 58 of 287 (2,741 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

[ Edited ]

@Jimmy, would that 4x RAID0 setup really help? How would the OS (Debian in Paul's case, SmartOS in mine) be able to "see" the drives at all with the B120i in RAID mode - without a driver?

What worked for me, though, is to setup ESXi (I tried 5.1) on the Microserver and run a Debian VM...

 

BTW: Did an HP support person from Europe contact you referring to my support case?

 

Peter

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Frequent Advisor
subsix
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎09-15-2013
Message 59 of 287 (2,732 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

FYI: iLO4 has been updated to 1.32. It fixes security issues but does not change the AHCI mode noise behavior.

 

http://www.hp.com/go/iLO

 

From what I recall the Readme document didn't list the Microserver explicitly. However, I haven't found any issue with installing and using that version on my Gen8.

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Honored Contributor
Jimmy Vance
Posts: 1,486
Registered: ‎11-27-2006
Message 60 of 287 (2,717 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy


subsix wrote:

@Jimmy, would that 4x RAID0 setup really help? How would the OS (Debian in Paul's case, SmartOS in mine) be able to "see" the drives at all with the B120i in RAID mode - without a driver?

What worked for me, though, is to setup ESXi (I tried 5.1) on the Microserver and run a Debian VM...

 BTW: Did an HP support person from Europe contact you referring to my support case?

 Peter


with 4X RAID0 configu you would need the hpvsa driver so it wouldn't help Paul or yourself. 

Other than PAC_'s case, I've had no recent interaction with support

 

 

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Esteemed Contributor
paulgear
Posts: 655
Registered: ‎04-03-2011
Message 61 of 287 (2,686 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

It still mystifies me why HP thinks

  1. that fake RAID will be better than the tried and tested software RAID systems available on Linux md, ZFS, etc., and
  2. that they can expect Linux users to use binary drivers on production servers.

Both of these have been tried before by various companies with very poor results.

Regards,
Paul
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Occasional Visitor
snapperdg
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎11-15-2013
Message 62 of 287 (2,642 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

As for the answer you received from 1st level support, you can always ask to speak to a supervisor and/or ask for your case to be escalated to 2nd level support.  For this particular issue you can ask the support person to contact me internally.

 

I opened a case with "support" and they said there was no problem. I then asked them to refer to second line support and quoted both this thread and Jimmys name and second line "support" also said there was no problem and it was working as designed. Looks like they couldn't be bothered to look at this thread or refer to Jimmy.

 

First time with a HP product and probably the last...

 

 

 

 

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Frequent Advisor
PAC_
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎08-15-2013
Message 63 of 287 (2,619 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

Latest support case updates:

 

 

Comment added: 11/12/2013 12:00:58 PM
Pending confirmation from thermal engineer if an updated fan table was provided to the BIOS team.

Comment added: 11/5/2013 12:06:05 PM
Engineering states this is a driver related issue, however some tuning can be done at the BIOS level, but there are no plans in the future for that.

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Frequent Advisor
subsix
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎09-15-2013
Message 64 of 287 (2,295 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

Quick update: I installed a H220 HBA in my Microserver and although not officially supported it seems like that configuration will work with Solaris/SmartOS at an acceptable noise level. With the 4 drive bay connected to that controller I made an interesting observation:

 

- With two WD RED drives (3.5") I get approx 30% fan speed in idle. No "HD-Max" showing up in iLO.

- With the two WD REDs and a genuine HP disk I get around 10% fan speed and an active "HD-Max" sensor.

- A 2.5" HGST enterprise disk (in the ODD bay) connected to the second SAS controller port results in 50% fan speed!

 

Definitely a noticeable difference and possibly a reason to consider at least one genuine HP drive in the install...

 

No further feedback from HP support regarding my case...

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Occasional Visitor
bobbozzo
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎11-21-2013
Message 65 of 287 (2,284 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

Mine does it in AHCI mode with no disks installed (booting VMWare from a flash drive).

 

I'm not convinced that HP drives are required, and even if they are, that is ridiculous.

 

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third_eye
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎11-25-2013
Message 66 of 287 (2,084 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

Hey,

I have the same problem with my gen8 microserver. I am using Debian Wheezy with disks in AHCI mode (with self compiled kernel 3.11). I get as well about 30% of fan speed in idle (wonder what that will be in summer time with slightly higher room temperatures). I will open up a support case.

 

The noise is really annoying and like that the server is not usable as a home server I would say. I will try to get a genuine HP disk and see if this helps (as it was written here before).

 

I wonder if previous generations of the microserver where that noisy as well...

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Advisor
Marcus Rejås
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎08-08-2008
Message 67 of 287 (2,045 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

Hi, I have had a couple of the previos genreration. I also use Debian and have not had any problems with the older ones. I have had them on my desk while my new Gen8 one hardly can be in the same room.

 

  /Marcus

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Occasional Visitor
third_eye
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎11-25-2013
Message 68 of 287 (1,896 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

So I had a call with the HP support regarding the ticket I created. I was informed that the microserver is only 100% compatible with HP hard drives and that other disks might work, but there could be smaller issues (like this fan speed issue). The support said that he is quite sure that the problem would not arise with genuine HP disks. But as HP disks are much more expensive then the WD red disks I have I decided to sell my microserver and go for a self build system. I can say that this was the first and last time that I bought a HP system.

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Frequent Advisor
subsix
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎09-15-2013
Message 69 of 287 (1,892 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

@third_eye,

 

I was close to that decision myself but with the H220 and one HP disk (in addition to two WD REDs) installed my Microserver is now at 9-10% fan speed consistently. Not a cheap workaround (that I had to discover myself) and clearly not what I had expected from HP!!! Unfortunately there's a lack of real alternatives in that particular market segment.

 

From what I read elsewhere today HP is still losing customers... that's quite a natural reaction when you stop looking at the business from your customer's perspective...

 

Peter

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Esteemed Contributor
paulgear
Posts: 655
Registered: ‎04-03-2011
Message 70 of 287 (1,869 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

Interesting developments, folks.  Can anyone point me to a list of supported drives, or which genuine drives you've used that have had the desired effect?  An H220 HBA is almost as expensive as the whole server, but if I can find the smallest, cheapest genuine drive, that might be a more cost-effective solution.

Regards,
Paul
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Frequent Advisor
subsix
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎09-15-2013
Message 71 of 287 (1,863 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

[ Edited ]

Paul,

 

I paid less than 150 EUR for the H220, much less than half of what I paid for the Microserver. No question, that thing is not cheap :-((. What sweetens the deal is that that controller offers 6Gb/s on ALL ports and is also certified for Solaris (I am using SmartOS). Might well be that it would also support drive hot plugging but I never tried...

 

With all that said the HBA is not officially supported on the Microserver. But taking into consideration that the controller is officially supported in the ML310 and looking at how similar that is to the Microserver I thought I'd take the chance and try it.

 

See the Microserver QuickSpecs for (officially) supported drives: http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/14565_na/14565_na.pdf

 

From what I recall the B120i did not read the HD sensor in AHCI mode - the H220 does... with at least one genuine HP drive installed.

 

Best regards,

 

Peter

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Honored Contributor
Jimmy Vance
Posts: 1,486
Registered: ‎11-27-2006
Message 72 of 287 (1,847 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

This issue is all about iLO and controller sensor data and has nothing to do with what brand of disk is installed in the system. 

 

I'm still providing everyones feedback to the MicroServer program team and hoping there will be a fix released soon.

 

 

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Esteemed Contributor
paulgear
Posts: 655
Registered: ‎04-03-2011
Message 73 of 287 (1,828 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

Thanks for your continued work on this Jimmy.  I hope we see something out of it soon.

Regards,
Paul
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Occasional Advisor
ibhpgb
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎08-16-2013
Message 74 of 287 (1,825 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

I guess my question is: Will there be a fix for the fan / temp / sensors ? A month? or two?

 

I will purchase something soon, and the microserver would work, but not without a fix.

 

 

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Frequent Advisor
subsix
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎09-15-2013
Message 75 of 287 (1,801 Views)

Re: MicroServer Gen8 is noisy

[ Edited ]

Jimmy,

 

Thanks a million for your continued support raising awareness at HP for this issue.

 

I fully agree that this is an iLO and controller/HD sensor data issue. I would also want to support the statement that the HD brand shouldn't make a difference. With the B120i in AHCI mode it didn't make a difference - regardless of whether that genuine HP drive or a WD RED was installed I never got below 30% fan speed. and communicated that to HP in my support case). 

 

However, it does make a significant difference with the bays connected to the H220. It was hard for me to believe but adding that one HP genuine drive to the 2 WD RED's in my setup activated the "HD Max" sensor in iLO and brought fan speed down to 9-11% (compared to the 30% without the HP drive). That never happened on the B120i in AHCI mode.

 

One more thing - in case someone from the Microserver program management reads this: HP should be aware of the below consequences when deciding to leave this noise issue unresolved:

1) They lose people wanting to use a Debian or Ubuntu based "SMB server" distributions like Zentyal or Univention UCS. Drivers for the B120i are not available, so all one can do is switch to AHCI mode...

2) They lose everyone wanting to benefit from using ZFS (Illumos/Solaris and derivatives, FreeBSD and derivative NAS distributions,...) e.g. for data integrity. Same here, AHCI mode is required...

3) Even with the supported OS'es: The B120i is a "fake RAID" controller. If it goes bad your chances for successful data recovery are limited (you'd need another B120i to connect the disks to). Not an issue in AHCI mode...

 

I understand that the OS'es mentioned above are unsupported from HP's perspective. But I wonder whether they really understand what OS's SMBs use today... It has always been the software and OS that defines what hardware to buy...

 

The Microserver is marketed for "micro and small businesses" - i.e. for situations where the server has to "live" in the single office room. The current state renders the Microserver useless for anything apart from Windows Server or ESXi. (Maybe except if you are deaf...)

 

I'd be happy to hear that they've changed their mind and will fix the B120i AHCI mode noise issue.

 

Peter

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