Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6? (576 Views)
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MathewA
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎06-14-2009
Message 1 of 36 (576 Views)

RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

Hi all,

I'm new to OpenVMS but I hope you guys will still help me out :)
I am doing some work on the network environment here and one of the computers is running "Compaq DECWindows Motif for OpenVMS, Version 1.2-6".

I would like to be able to remotely access that computer and access both mouse and keyboard.
On the other Windows and Linux computers I have been using Windows' own RemoteDesktop or a VNC programm.

Now I wondered if it was somehow possible to do the same here or whether maybe the operating system already offered a solution for this.

I hope you gurus know the system and know how to solve this problem.
Any help would be hugely appreciated!

Kind regads,
Mathew
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marsh_1
Posts: 986
Registered: ‎03-25-2004
Message 2 of 36 (576 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

HI,

try using an x-windows emulator like reflections for example to access decwindows via telnet or ssh. there is also a vnc client for vms - just google for openvms vnc.


hth

Advisor
MathewA
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎06-14-2009
Message 3 of 36 (576 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

I found a ported version of TighVNC but that requires perl and "a recent version of X" ;)

at least according to the readme.

I also found references to a vnc version for openvms by Hunter Goatley but a) it was only for the newer openvms versions and b) i could only find the release notes and no working download locations.

Transfering data from the computer to the ftp server is not the problem by the way. All I need to do is "see" the desktop like with VNC or RemoteDekstop and control the mouse and keyboard.
Honored Contributor
marsh_1
Posts: 986
Registered: ‎03-25-2004
Message 4 of 36 (576 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

hi,

which alpha or vax system is this and what is the version of vms ?
what is the reason for needing a windowing type session ?

hth

Honored Contributor
Steven Schweda
Posts: 9,091
Registered: ‎02-23-2005
Message 5 of 36 (576 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

> I would like to be able to remotely access
> that computer and access both mouse and
> keyboard.

That probably requires a robot.

As usual, it's often more helpful to specify
what the actual problem is, or what task
you're trying to perform, rather than asking
how to implement a particular (non-ideal)
solution to that problem.

What you _can_ do easily is what you can do
with many non-Windows systems, and that is to
use the X Window System (here, DECwindows) to
let you run a program on the VMS system and
have it use your X server to provide
keyboard+pointer input, and graphical display
output.

There may be a working VNC viewer for VMS,
but I've never heard of a working VNC
_server_ for VMS, and that's what you'd need
to control the VMS system remotely. (Right?)

There are lots of X server kits available for
Windows. (Or get a Mac, or use a Linux
desktop system with X installed.)
Honored Contributor
Hoff
Posts: 4,958
Registered: ‎01-29-2006
Message 6 of 36 (576 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

Advisor
MathewA
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎06-14-2009
Message 7 of 36 (576 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

Apologies if I did not make myself clear :(

What I am trying to do is remotely use the computer.

Meaning, the computer with OpenVMS (details like version were posted in first post) is in building A. My computer is in building B.

Now I do not want to walk over to building A to start a calculation or a measurement (openvms computer controls a measuring device) or check whether the calculations are actually done yet.
So just like in VNC tools like TightVNC, UltraVNC etc I would like to be able to open a connection that mirrors the video output of the computer in building A to my desktop on my computer in building B and allows me to virtually use the mouse and keyboard as well.

That way I do not need to actually use the actual keyboard and mouse but can control the whole computer from Building B or even from home.


I do the same with other computers. e.g. the ftp server is running on Windows and remotedesktop (that's what it's called in german) is activated.
I can then log on to that computer via the internet and virtually use the mouse and keyboard and control the computer as if i were standing in front of it using the actual mouse and keyboard hardware.
Honored Contributor
marsh_1
Posts: 986
Registered: ‎03-25-2004
Message 8 of 36 (576 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

hi,

then you should just need to use an x-window emulator from your pc , that will give you the same sort of decwindows screen you would see locally, access will depend whether this system has ip services like telnet or ssh enabled.
the version you have given is for the x-window type software thats runs on openvms called decwindows , the operating system version will be different to that.

fwiw

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MathewA
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎06-14-2009
Message 9 of 36 (576 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

all i could find is that it is running DECTerm and then I found "Compaq DECWindows Motif for OpenVMS, Version 1.2-6".

if you can tell me where to look I would happily supply you with any information I can :)


you wouldn't by any chance have a short manual or could post the commands i need to enter in the DECWindows command prompt to start the necessary software or check whether it is installed?

i just downloaded and installed both XMing and Cygwin. hope those are sufficient.
Honored Contributor
Hoff
Posts: 4,958
Registered: ‎01-29-2006
Message 10 of 36 (576 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

Here's how to establish and manage remote displays with ssh port forwarding to a Mac OS X box; Unix and Linux boxes are similar.

http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/134

There are discussions of X11 and VNC there, as well as the sequence used to raise an X Window display on the local box.
Honored Contributor
Steven Schweda
Posts: 9,091
Registered: ‎02-23-2005
Message 11 of 36 (575 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

> So just like in VNC tools like TightVNC,
> UltraVNC etc I would like to [...]

Ok. Without a VNC server, which I believe is
not available, I don't think that you can do
that. You can do many other things, some of
which may be close enough.

You can run a terminal emulator on the remote
system, and use Telnet, RSH, SSH, or whatever
to connect to the VMS system, and get an
interactive terminal session.

With an X server on the remote system, you
can do all pretty much anything you could do
if you were sitting at a graphics console at
the VMS system: DECterm session, Web browser,
EDIT/TPU /INTERFACE=DECWINDOWS, ... --
anything with a DECwindows interface.

What you probably can _not_ do is start an
interactive session of some kind locally on
the VMS system, and then operate that session
remotely (which VNC _could_ let you do).

> [...] start a calculation or a measurement
> (openvms computer controls a measuring
> device) or check whether the calculations
> are actually done yet. [...]

These may seem like well-defined tasks to
you, but I don't know enough about how you
"start a [...] measurement" or "check" on one
to suggest exactly how you might best be able
to do such things from a distance. In some
cases, it's helpful to submit a task as a
batch job, so it can run non-interactively,
and then its progress (log file, completion
status, and so on) can be checked from
anywhere.

It might be interesting to know exactly what
this VMS system is (actual model, workstation
or server, something), and how you normally
interact with it (VT100, some other terminal
or terminal emulator, workstation graphics
console, ...).
Honored Contributor
marsh_1
Posts: 986
Registered: ‎03-25-2004
Message 12 of 36 (575 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

hi,

it sounds like you've found decterm on the local graphics console ? fire up a decterm session and at the $ prompt ( or any whatever the command prompt has been configured to) enter

show sys/proc=decw*

that will show you any decwindows processes running on the system and will also display the vms version at the top.
if you enter

ucx show version
ucx show serv
ucx show inter

that will show you the version of tcpip , the tcpip services running on the system and the ip addresses you can use to get to it.

show cpu/full

will show you the cpu type/speed and also the system type
get all of that into a txt file and attach it to your next post.

fwiw

Advisor
MathewA
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎06-14-2009
Message 13 of 36 (575 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

@mark hunt: i will do that first thing tomorrow. i'll report back on the versions and details.

@Steven Schweda: i truly hope you are wrong :(

measurements are started by opening the measuring software and then adjusting and starting it. it has a gui so it's status cannot just be checked via command prompt.

hence the need to actually "see" what is running on the computer just like in VNC.

the software would be started and executed locally and i then want to monitor it remotely.
so i would need to see the same output i would see on the computer's monitor. not just be able to execute new programs and commands. i need to see the window of already active programs.
Honored Contributor
Steven Schweda
Posts: 9,091
Registered: ‎02-23-2005
Message 14 of 36 (575 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

> @Steven Schweda: i truly hope you are wrong :(

You can hope, but the "just like in VNC" part
sounds bad to me.


> [...] it's status [...]

That's "its status".
Advisor
MathewA
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎06-14-2009
Message 15 of 36 (575 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

>That's "its status".

true. mea culpa. my german's better though ;)
Honored Contributor
Joseph Huber_1
Posts: 1,082
Registered: ‎02-03-2004
Message 16 of 36 (575 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

>>
so i would need to see the same output i would see on the computer's monitor. not just be able to execute new programs and commands. i need to see the window of already active programs.
>>
This is what Windows remote Desktop is doing, just redirecting the complete I/O (display,keyboard,pointer,audio) from the local desktop to the remote, all running programs being undisturbed, not terminated and restarted.
The X11 access method (VMS or Unix like systems) does not offer this capability.
A remote X11 session has no connection to the desktop on the local system.
So either the application on the local desktop has to be aware of the remote display (e.g. by sending a command telling it to use the new X11 display), or it has to be stopped and restarted on the remote X11 desktop.
Applications designed for X11 (VMS or Unix) usually separate data-acquisition from data-presentation and control interface, so they can run ob different desktops (or no desktop at all).
http://www.mpp.mpg.de/~huber
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marsh_1
Posts: 986
Registered: ‎03-25-2004
Message 17 of 36 (575 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

hi,

given your clarification on your needs here - as joseph has pointed out an x-window emulator won't do this, you are back to the vnc server port that hoff posted a link to earlier.


hth

Valued Contributor
Brian Reiter
Posts: 303
Registered: ‎03-04-2004
Message 18 of 36 (575 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

Could the measuring software be run from a PC running the X-windows server?

You could then use VNC onto that PC (assuming of course it all plays nicely) and tweak the software like that.
Honored Contributor
Joseph Huber_1
Posts: 1,082
Registered: ‎02-03-2004
Message 19 of 36 (575 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

I think VNC is also on VMS doing almost what You need.

But be aware:
>>Compaq DECWindows Motif for OpenVMS, Version 1.2-6 <<
indicates a VMS version older than 7.3-2.
At least Alexei's VNC server requires at least VMS 8.2 !
So a VMS upgrade on Mathew's system will be necessary.
http://www.mpp.mpg.de/~huber
Advisor
MathewA
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎06-14-2009
Message 20 of 36 (575 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

yes, the system is a few years old and i doubt anyone before me ever really tried to get it to be all that it could be :)

i honestly do not know whether i could install a different operating system. i will have to talk to the manufacturer as i do not know whether the drivers and programs need would be available for newer operating systems.

i'll check with them because anything short of what VNC does (redirect the whole I/O) would not be sufficient, i'm afraid.
Honored Contributor
Hoff
Posts: 4,958
Registered: ‎01-29-2006
Message 21 of 36 (575 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

Please post your requirements, details of your software and hardware configuration, and please do not post any proposed solutions, nor any proposed features, or proposed answer, and please avoid any references to VNC in this description.

Just the background and the problem statement, please.

I might suspect there is a solution here with X. What are you working with here for the application and the display (and related versions and applications), and what are you trying to do? It's entirely feasible to toss the whole DECwindows X11 login display over to a remote box, for instance. Which seems pretty close to what you want.

VNC might well be a most excellent and common solution, and it might well be the best solution. But for the time being, a VNC-based solution isn't available here. Short of VNC hardware or the virtual widget support available on recent Integrity rx-series Itanium boxes, that is.

I'm probably just being dense here, but I don't understand what's going on nor what the application operations and application requirements are. (And yes, I do know from VNC and ARD, and use it all the time.)
Advisor
MathewA
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎06-14-2009
Message 22 of 36 (575 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

i will try to collect all the necessary information tomorrow (with the commands posted earlier) and then post those and a description of what it is is am trying to accomplish :)
Advisor
MathewA
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎06-14-2009
Message 23 of 36 (575 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

OK.
Here is what I have so far.

>show sys/proc=decw*
--> OpenVMS V7.3

>ucx show version
--> Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 on a digital Personal Workstation running OpenVMS V7.3

>ucx show serv
--> FTP
--> TELNET
Advisor
MathewA
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎06-14-2009
Message 24 of 36 (575 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

what i want:

i want to redirect all I/O (graphics, keyboard, mouse) from the local system running the above openvms to a remote computer.

i need to be able to see and control all programs that were started locally on my remote computer. i also need to be able to control those programs even if they were started locally and not via my remote connection.

i also need to be able to open and close that remote connection as i will be using it from more than one computer (not simultaniously) and need to be able to see the programs I started from remote computer A on my remote computer B after connecting remote computer B.

i hope you guys know what i mean :-)
Honored Contributor
Willem Grooters
Posts: 2,038
Registered: ‎05-21-2003
Message 25 of 36 (575 Views)

Re: RemoteDekstop/VNC possible in version 1.2-6?

Do you really require a graphical interface?
Most - if not all - of your requirements can well be done without. In that case, a proper terminal emulator will do the job as well. VMS is not bound to a graphical interace, you can control the system completely from a character cell interface.
Unless, of course, the programs you run require a graphical interface. In which case, an X-windows server on your side would connect you to the VMS system.
Willem Grooters
OpenVMS Developer & System Manager
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