Problem using RZ1EF-AB disks on an alphaserver DS10 mounted in an external BA356 (700 Views)
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Frequent Advisor
Piet Timmers_1
Posts: 94
Registered: ‎08-19-2004
Message 1 of 16 (700 Views)

Problem using RZ1EF-AB disks on an alphaserver DS10 mounted in an external BA356

Hello everybody,

 

I have problems using disks.

 

I have mounted 6 disks, type RZ1EF-AB in an external  BA356, connected to a DS10.

 

Disk-0 ($1$DKC0: on OpenVMS)  has OpenVMS on it, and the DS10 can boot from it.

All the other disks cannot be initialized and/or mounted, error message: %MOUNT-I-OPRQST, medium is offline

 

On the boot prompt all the disks looks normal.

 

When I put the systemdisk in another slot in the BA shelf, it can used to boot. But even than the other disks are not usable.

 

A SHOW DEVICE/FULL shows:

 

$ sh dev $1$DKC200:/full


Disk $1$DKC200: (VMS1), device type D.C. . . R.1.F.C. .C. .E., is online, file-
    oriented device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled.

 

and for the correct working disk:

 

$ sh dev $1$DKC0:/full


Disk DSA0:, device type DEC RZ1EF-AB, is online, mounted, file-oriented device,
    shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled, device supports
    bitmaps (no bitmaps active).

 

Both disk are the same type.

 

Any idea where to start  for a solution?

 

Greetings,

 

Piet

 

 

 

 

 

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Honored Contributor
Duncan Morris
Posts: 666
Registered: ‎08-07-2003
Message 2 of 16 (697 Views)

Re: Problem using RZ1EF-AB disks on an alphaserver DS10 mounted in an external BA356

Hi Piet,

 

some more details would be handy:

 

OpenVMS version

 

SRM version  >>> SHOW VERSION

 

SRM display from >>>SHOW CONFIG

 

What type of adapter is PKC0?

 

What i/o module is installed in the BA356?

 

Have you check for termination in the BA356?

 

Do you see all the disks from VMS? $ SHOW DEV D

 

 

Duncan

 

 

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Frequent Advisor
Piet Timmers_1
Posts: 94
Registered: ‎08-19-2004
Message 3 of 16 (693 Views)

Re: Problem using RZ1EF-AB disks on an alphaserver DS10 mounted in an external BA356

Duncan,

 

Some of the things you ask for I must put the node in console mode, I will do this this evening.

 

I have some more information in a log file and will attach it here.

 

Greetings,

 

 

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Trusted Contributor
abrsvc
Posts: 355
Registered: ‎06-08-2010
Message 4 of 16 (678 Views)

Re: Problem using RZ1EF-AB disks on an alphaserver DS10 mounted in an external BA356

A few things come to mind here.

 

1) The DS10 only supports 1 of each type of controller (single channel and dual channel).  I am concerned about seeing a DKE designation for a disk as this suggests more controllers than is "supported".

 

2) The device type is not showing up correctly in the header which is worrysome.

 

3) The size of the disk is different from the others in that the total blocks reported is less than I would expect from an 18Gb drive.  I question whether or not this is the same device type.  It perhaps is not supported.

 

4) I have multiple DS10s that I support and have no problems with any version of OpenVMS.  The difference is that the drives are RZ1DB drives.

 

Check the interface "card" in the BA356 box and report the module type here.  This could be part ofthe isseu as well.

 

Dan

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Frequent Advisor
Piet Timmers_1
Posts: 94
Registered: ‎08-19-2004
Message 5 of 16 (658 Views)

Re: Problem using RZ1EF-AB disks on an alphaserver DS10 mounted in an external BA356

Dan,

 

I agree with you that the device type not showing correct is worrysome.

 

The DS10 has two SCSI controllers of the same type. This evening I shall take one of them out of it and look to the result.

 

A copy of console output is not so easy to save, but a photo is always possible. I hope this information available tomorrow.

 

Thanks for helping me.

 

Piet

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Trusted Contributor
abrsvc
Posts: 355
Registered: ‎06-08-2010
Message 6 of 16 (648 Views)

Re: Problem using RZ1EF-AB disks on an alphaserver DS10 mounted in an external BA356

This may seem somewhat redundant, but verify that you don'e have cables attached inside the DS10 to any internal disks or even attached only to the controller. This may be as simple as a cable acting like a big antenna.

Please post the controller types and locations as well.

Dan
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Respected Contributor
Bob Blunt
Posts: 314
Registered: ‎05-01-2003
Message 7 of 16 (648 Views)

Re: Problem using RZ1EF-AB disks on an alphaserver DS10 mounted in an external BA356

Piet, IF all the drives you've got are definitely RZ1EF-ABs then I'd pay most attention to the one that isn't reporting it's model number or size correctly.  One of the issues I've found with SCSI of any sort is that it is very sensitive to a bad drive and one, to paraphrase, bad apple can spoil the whole bunch.  More so if the drive is a lower number than other drives that might be behaving correctly.  If it were my system I'd take all the *non-working* (or those that don't seem to be working) disks out of the shelf completely.  Add them back in individually.  Yes, it is slow, yes, it is frustrating but if you have one bad disk and the rest are good it might not be evident.  Sometimes you can also be fighting a bad slot in a shelf and this would be apparent if all the disks inserted into that slot fail in similar ways.  Besides asking about the "personality module" I'm curious about how many power supplies you have in the shelf?  I'd also check the "containers" for each disk carefully to be very sure that one of them isn't sporting a recycled drive (I've gotten several disks that were claimed to be new that have neither had the warranty seals nor were the drives inside what the external part number said).

 

In all honesty there are probably some drives that, even if brand new, may not work out of the box.  Given that yours are in a shelf I'm curious if they're marked on the container as RZ1EF-VA or RZ1EF-VW (the "VA" being a narrow drive and the "VW" being wide; both are capable of installation into ANY shelf that supports them but how they work in each can be quite different, hence the questions about what personality module).  Most of the personality modules have switch settings to make the shelf  "talk" correctly to the drives installed in it and to the SCSI controller/HBA.  Cable(s) can also be important.

 

bob

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Honored Contributor
Richard Brodie_1
Posts: 572
Registered: ‎10-09-2003
Message 8 of 16 (620 Views)

Re: Problem using RZ1EF-AB disks on an alphaserver DS10 mounted in an external BA356

Losing every other byte from the name of the disk smells like a narrow/wide problem.

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Frequent Advisor
B Claremont
Posts: 47
Registered: ‎08-23-2006
Message 9 of 16 (563 Views)

Re: Problem using RZ1EF-AB disks on an alphaserver DS10 mounted in an external BA356

To capture console output, connect a laptop to the serial port via PuTTY and use it as a serial console.

www.MigrationSpecialties.com
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Trusted Contributor
GuentherF
Posts: 233
Registered: ‎10-04-2006
Message 10 of 16 (553 Views)

Re: Problem using RZ1EF-AB disks on an alphaserver DS10 mounted in an external BA356

"Any idea where to start  for a solution?"

 

Is the drive known to be good?

 

/Guenther

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Honored Contributor
Hein van den Heuvel
Posts: 6,579
Registered: ‎05-19-2003
Message 11 of 16 (540 Views)

Re: Problem using RZ1EF-AB disks on an alphaserver DS10 mounted in an external BA356

At first I thought perhaps something with scsi bus termination or personality module issues.

But then why would mutliple slots appear to correctly function as system disk?

 

Did this ever work or is this an all new configuration.

If it used to work, then what changed?

 

Where does that system disk come from? Could it be doing something special?

$ sh dev $1$DKC0:/full ... reports DSA0

Did you (try to ) set up shadowing, or is that inherited with that system disk

 

Is there not a buildin, bootable system drive (DKA0?)

You you boot that, can you mount the 6 drives privately  properly

If there is no other system disk to boot then how about booting from an install/recovery CD?

  

Actually you mention 'trying to initialize/mount'.

If wont to intialize, then be sure NOT to try yo mount.

 

Hope this helps some.

Met vriendelijke groetjes,

Hein.

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Frequent Advisor
Piet Timmers_1
Posts: 94
Registered: ‎08-19-2004
Message 12 of 16 (516 Views)

Re: Problem using RZ1EF-AB disks on an alphaserver DS10 mounted in an external BA356

To answer most off the questions:

 

- I have tested all the disks in an other BA cabinet, all are ok.

- Capturing console output using a laptop is not so easy nowadays, laptops with serial interface are not so

  easy to find.

- It has never worked. I bought the system with only one disk, with BSD on it. That only disk was  $1$dke0:

- The system disk is a copy made from a systemdisk from an Alpha1000.

- There are two SCSI interfaces KZPCM-DX in the system, one off  them I have removed now.

- Yesterday I took some screen pictures, they are included here.

- I took the SCSI  interface from my Alpha1000 and placed it in the DS10 to make it possible to connect

  a TZ88.

- I will try to connect the BA to the interface where the tapeunit is connected now, mayby that will work.

 

Greetings,

 

Piet

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Honored Contributor
Duncan Morris
Posts: 666
Registered: ‎08-07-2003
Message 13 of 16 (467 Views)

Re: Problem using RZ1EF-AB disks on an alphaserver DS10 mounted in an external BA356

Interesting!

 

You appear to be mixing narrow 50 pin and wide 80 pin drives in the BA356

 

  • RZ1EF-AA - 18.2GB 7200RPM Ultra Narrow 50 Pin
  • RZ1EF-AB - 18.2 GB 7200RPM Ultra 50 Pin Narrow
  • RZ1EF-AS - 18.2GB 7200RPM Ultra Narrow 50 Pin
  • RZ1EF-BA - 18.2GB 7200RPM Ultra Wide 68 PIN
  • RZ1EF-BB - 18.2 GB 7200RPM Ultra Wide 68 PIN
  • RZ1EF-BS - 18.2GB 7200RPM Ultra Wide 68 PIN
  • RZ1EF-CA - 18.2GB 7200RPM Ultra Wide 80 Pin SCA2
  • RZ1EF-CB - 18.2 GB 7200RPM Ultra Wide 80 Pin SCA2
  • RZ1EF-CS - 18.2GB 7200RPM Ultra Wide 80 Pin SCA2

 

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Respected Contributor
Bob Blunt
Posts: 314
Registered: ‎05-01-2003
Message 14 of 16 (435 Views)

Re: Problem using RZ1EF-AB disks on an alphaserver DS10 mounted in an external BA356

The plastic disk container (brick) hides the gory details of what type physical interface the disk inside uses pretty well.  All "we" see on the outside is the brick's large plastic plug that goes into the backplane.  I'd be surprised, though, if the brick with the RZ1EF-AB disk inside, the narrow one, says that it is a -VW variant on it's label (if it has one).  But therein lies the key.  You're mixing a -VA (narrow) disk with -VW (wide) disks and the wide variants aren't working correctly.  I'd check the personality module closely, get the model number and check it's jumper settings because that's what will decide what disks work inside that shelf.  You might get away with using a personality module intended for wide disks and keeping that narrow drive in the shelf but I wouldn't guarantee it.  Wide drives and busses "are supposed to" step themselves down to work with older (the -AB narrow variant in your case/shelf) as much as possible but a narrow bus (or drive) isn't capable of "stepping up" to wide.  And, unfortunately, in my experience the only way to find out what your options are is to put it all together and test it.

 

There can also be other complications with the Storageworks bricks.  The interface between the disk and the shelf (the ribbon cable attached to the connectors and plugs into the shelf backplane) also has had a number of flavors and variations.  Some of these have worked better than others in certain configurations so, again, the best way is to put things together and test.  That interface cable usually has a dip switch or two on it for different configurations and it isn't easy to access without disassembling the brick.  So if you have a brick that was refurbished with a different drive inside all bets are off.  Cumbersome?  Yes.

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Frequent Advisor
Piet Timmers_1
Posts: 94
Registered: ‎08-19-2004
Message 15 of 16 (376 Views)

Re: Problem using RZ1EF-AB disks on an alphaserver DS10 mounted in an external BA356

According the disk supplier:

 

 

The RZ1EF -CB is the same drive in both the RZ1EF-VW and RZ1EF-VA it is just the rear connector is either 8-bit or 16-bit. The ones we supplied are 8-bit narrow so they are fine in BA356 cabs,

So there is no narrow/wide problem.

 

Greetings,

 

Piet

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Honored Contributor
Richard Brodie_1
Posts: 572
Registered: ‎10-09-2003
Message 16 of 16 (368 Views)

Re: Problem using RZ1EF-AB disks on an alphaserver DS10 mounted in an external BA356

According the disk supplier:

 

"The RZ1EF -CB is the same drive in both the RZ1EF-VW and RZ1EF-VA it is just the rear connector is either 8-bit or 16-bit. The ones we supplied are 8-bit narrow so they are fine in BA356 cabs."

 

I'm not a SCSI guru but it appears obvious that they have supplied the wrong container. 16-bits at both ends, 8-bits in the middle, recipe for pain.

 

 

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