P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support (1679 Views)
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Frequent Advisor
Patrick Neuner
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎09-05-2007
Message 1 of 22 (1,679 Views)

P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

[ Edited ]

Hello,

 

I wanted to ask if there are any News on TRIM/DISCARD functionality on P4500 ... We are using several thin provisioned Partitions - and they are growing every day because of the lack of trim/discard ...

Hope this Feature will be implemented soon? (As most other SAN already can do it ...)

 

Thank you

Andreas Schnederle-Wagner

 

 

P.S. This thread has been moved from HP 3PAR StoreServ Storage to HP StoreVirtual Storage / LeftHand. - Hp Forum Moderator

Honored Contributor
oikjn
Posts: 770
Registered: ‎07-20-2011
Message 2 of 22 (1,665 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

++ can't agree more.  This is a feature I would have expected in v10.  At this point this is more of a basic feature as opposed to an "advanced" one.

Frequent Advisor
Patrick Neuner
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎09-05-2007
Message 3 of 22 (1,638 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

I hope they don't neglect P4000 Features in favor of the 3PAR ... wouldn't be the first time that some features would be retained in favor of bigger Machines ... Hope I'm wrong with this thought ...

Honored Contributor
Bart_Heungens
Posts: 687
Registered: ‎10-26-2005
Message 4 of 22 (1,636 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

I don't think that HP will keep this for 3PAR only since P4000 is also a major platform for HP...

 

My opinion (no I do not work for HP) is that it will be implemented in 10.5... 10.0 was mote a hardware refresh than a software one, I assume that 10.5 will be also a bigger software update, just like it was the case with 9.5...

 

 

Kr,

Bart

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Regular Advisor
KurtG
Posts: 145
Registered: ‎01-02-2005
Message 5 of 22 (1,616 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

3Par strips the "0" in the asic and don't even write the "0" to disk.

Lefthand must implement this in a other way (writing - finding - removing) as the architecture does not have a asic.

Having said that I suspect this is functionallity HP i looking into and it is obviously harder to do this in a "scale-out" storage approach compared to legacy two-controller systems. Hopefully it can be implememented without to much of a performance impact. Might also be a "G3 only solution"? (I don't know)

 

 

KurtG

 

(I'm not working for HP)

 

 

 

Frequent Advisor
Gediminas Vilutis
Posts: 53
Registered: ‎02-23-2011
Message 6 of 22 (1,609 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

I've heard rumours that v10.5 is going live with new StoreVirtual (4530 and 4730) models in two weeks (on February 19th). Don't know anything exact about new features (SMI-S might be supported, otherwise why new OS version number?). Regarding TRIM/DISCARD/T10 SCSI UNMAP etc., that is for sure not in this release.

 

Gediminas

Frequent Advisor
Patrick Neuner
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎09-05-2007
Message 7 of 22 (1,602 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

would really love to get official Statement from HP about this Topic. If we can hope for this substential feature or not ... (also plays a major role in a future expansion or new acquisition of SAN) because Thin-Provisioning is NOT useable without this ...

Andreas
Regular Advisor
KurtG
Posts: 145
Registered: ‎01-02-2005
Message 8 of 22 (1,598 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

This information would generally not be avaliable without current a NDA. (Closer to product launch more and more people will know something)

Generally HP (and others) talks very little about futureware. I guess this is related regulations by the stock exchange.

 

Doesn't mean that I don't want to know, but I can see their side of this information flow also.

 

KurtG

Frequent Advisor
Gediminas Vilutis
Posts: 53
Registered: ‎02-23-2011
Message 9 of 22 (1,593 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

Regarding information disclosure and stocks, etc. - that is probably related. Or not, only HP might tell.

 

But some NDA or 'partner only' presentations do get leaked on internet and mighty google indexes them :) Try search for StoreVirtual part numbers 4530 and 4730, some info is already present

 

Gediminas

Frequent Advisor
Patrick Neuner
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎09-05-2007
Message 10 of 22 (1,475 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

beginning to fear they never gonna implement TRIM for P4000 ... which makes thin provisioning pretty useless ... :-/

Occasional Visitor
Cadonline
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎06-26-2013
Message 11 of 22 (1,330 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

Any News on this?
We are running into serious Troubles with our Lefthands as Thin Provisioned Volumes grow and grow and grow because the lack of Discard!
HP Pro
Jitun
Posts: 199
Registered: ‎03-28-2008
Message 12 of 22 (1,325 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

Patience gets rewarded...
Cant say much more. ;)
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How to assign points? Click the KUDOS! star!
Honored Contributor
oikjn
Posts: 770
Registered: ‎07-20-2011
Message 13 of 22 (1,318 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

oh that would be such a relief.  I can't wait, but I hope they include SMI-S support and some integration with the storage services of windows 2012, but that might just be a dream.

Frequent Advisor
Patrick Neuner
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎09-05-2007
Message 14 of 22 (1,190 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support


Jitun wrote:
Patience gets rewarded...
Cant say much more. ;)

Half a year later ...

Honored Contributor
oikjn
Posts: 770
Registered: ‎07-20-2011
Message 15 of 22 (1,181 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

lol

 

its getting sad.  

Frequent Advisor
Patrick Neuner
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎09-05-2007
Message 16 of 22 (1,113 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

Right now this is getting a serious problem for us.
On our Servers we habe 2TB used Space (4,6TB assigned; 2TB used) - which eats up over 9TB on our LH Storage. So our P4500 is nearly filled up by 100% ...
Only thing we can do is move the Partitions to newly created Volumes - but they soon will fill up again ...

So if there is no discard/trim support in the very near future it seems we need to drop HP SAN and look for an alternative which supports it ... :-/

I don't like that - as we were always very satisfied with HP - but I don't see another solution at the moment ...

Andreas Schnederle-Wagner
Honored Contributor
oikjn
Posts: 770
Registered: ‎07-20-2011
Message 17 of 22 (1,105 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

Hope you get that to the right ears over there.  I'm too small of a fish to make any difference to them when I say that.  In the meantime, what is your actual usage?  Can you move your high churn data to isolated smaller LUNs and your lower movement stuff to other drives?  that way you can limit the amount of thin LUNs that actually expand out to their full size.  That was how I managed to get a bit of control on our thin provisioning LUN expansion rates.  I also have to monitor it just in case something grows too quickly so I can move everything off that LUN and onto another thin LUN while I still have the space...  its a PITA, but it keeps our allocation where we want it.

Frequent Advisor
Patrick Neuner
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎09-05-2007
Message 18 of 22 (1,099 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

We are using our P4500 for Web-Hosting (Virtual Hosts and Shared Hosts) - unfortunately we can not make the Volumes smaller - as they need to be the size we sell the VHosts to our Customers ...

I just had a Phone-Call from HP Support (DAMIAN IVANOV) because of a Support Request on this issue (Case ID: #4647850281) - and HP Support (DAMIAN IVANOV) told me clearly that Lefthand Engeneering !!! IS CURRENTLY NOT !!! working on DISCARD funtionality nor will it come in the foreseeable future ... !!!

---------
Support Case answer:
*** PHONE LOG 3/24/2014 (M/D/Y) 2:23 PM CET-1CEST AT [UTC +1:00] WIDEN_DAMIAN_IVANOV Action Type: Outgoing call

Talked to the customer. There is no official info on this if he got that info from 3rd party / sales team he should contact them.
---------

He suggested to move to 3PAR Storage ...

Seems like we're left out in the rain!!

Andreas Schnederle-Wagner
Honored Contributor
oikjn
Posts: 770
Registered: ‎07-20-2011
Message 19 of 22 (1,091 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

that sucks x2.  Not sure the workaround there.  what exactly are you selling here?  do they see the LUN or are they just getting a VM w/ virtual disks?  What hypervisor?  I"m using hyper-v and what I did was move any vhd files which caused thin volume expansion to a set of LUNs where I assume they were expaned to 100% capacity for thin provisioning.  Then I moved the other disks to LUNs where I assumed I wanted to keep them compacted and any time their compaction rate goes down too far, I create a new LUN, migrate the vhd files to that.  Then when I have the old expanded LUN empty, I shrink it to 1GB and then re-expand it to make it "thin" again.  As long as I can keep enough space available for one extra LUN, I don't have an issue...  this isn't idea, but I viewed it as a nice temporary solution.  This this isn't temporary as your support response seems to suggest, I too will be migrating to a non-HP solution next year.  Its a shame since this product used to be so good and now it sounds like its just getting left behind.

Frequent Advisor
Patrick Neuner
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎09-05-2007
Message 20 of 22 (1,081 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

alright - seems like the Support Guy was not knowing what he was speaking about ...

I had the chance to speak with Brad Katz (HP WorldWide Product Manager StoreVirtual) ... sounds way better than the Support Rep. statement ...

------------------------------------------
Hi Andreas,

The support person was incorrect if they said no one is working on this. The UNMAP feature is being actively worked as a high priority by our development team and we expect to deliver this feature to our customers this year.

Thanks,
Brad
------------------------------------------

Looking forward for the UNMAP Feature ... ;-)

Andreas Schnederle-Wagner
Honored Contributor
oikjn
Posts: 770
Registered: ‎07-20-2011
Message 21 of 22 (1,079 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

that sounds much better :)
Frequent Advisor
Patrick Neuner
Posts: 85
Registered: ‎09-05-2007
Message 22 of 22 (212 Views)

Re: P4500 TRIM/DISCARD support

yap - sounds better ... but only 3 Month left this Year - and no Signs of TRIM/DISCARD/UNMAP so far ... so i'm not so sure about this ... :-(

 

Andreas

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