Oracle & Itanium (1034 Views)
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Honored Contributor
Jan van den Ende
Posts: 4,537
Registered: ‎12-17-2003
Message 1 of 30 (1,034 Views)
Accepted Solution

Oracle & Itanium

See

http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/346696

No mention of it, but does anyone have any info how this impacts Rdb and DBMS (and of course native Oracle?

I am not optimistic here...

Proost.

Have one on me.

jpe
Don't rust yours pelled jacker to fine doll missed aches.
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Honored Contributor
Robert Brooks_1
Posts: 433
Registered: ‎08-22-2004
Message 2 of 30 (1,034 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

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John Gillings
Posts: 2,992
Registered: ‎07-31-2003
Message 3 of 30 (1,034 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

Interesting! Maybe Oracle could sell Rdb back to HP? ;-)
A crucible of informative mistakes
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HP Pro
Ian Miller.
Posts: 4,370
Registered: ‎06-03-2003
Message 5 of 30 (1,034 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

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Honored Contributor
Hoff
Posts: 4,921
Registered: ‎01-29-2006
Message 6 of 30 (1,034 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

If we can take a pause from the PR kerfuffle and briefly return to what passes for customer reality, can we discuss what happens here going forward?

In the near term, obviously nothing needs to happen and nothing needs to change. Oracle software support for existing environments remains available, and the existing Itanium boxes work now and will for some years ahead, and new Itanium boxes are presently available. Status quo.

What has changed is the future availability of new versions of Oracle products.

Which means that we now have a mid- or longer-term choice of a migration off of OpenVMS or HP-UX to another operating system with Oracle database support, or of an on-platform migration from the Oracle products to a different database (and what are the options?), or reconfiguring our existing environments and applications to use a served (remote) database, or some combination of these.

None of these are particularly good choices.

Further information on the application options and alternatives will almost certainly be (or is?) available from Oracle, and y'all (HP) do presently have an opportunity to provide your input and your suggestions and your product alternatives, as well as input and suggestion from your (HP) partners. This window won't remain open indefinitely, as responses are being formulated and decisions are presently being made.
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Frequent Advisor
Shael Richmond
Posts: 82
Registered: ‎12-22-2003
Message 7 of 30 (1,034 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

Following Hoff's lead....

Both Oracle RDBMS and the RDB products are covered by lifetime support. That should give us up to 8 years of support with patches. That time will be a bit less probably because I believe the initial 5 years starts as of the product release. After that support will be there just no new patches.

In our case, it would be easy to move our Oracle RDBMS server to another platform - just costly but our application could run happily on VMS. However since we use Codasyl DBMS(RDB) as our production database our options aren't too good. We can take the risk after the patch period is over or leave VMS.

As a company we have already made inquiries to Oracle and yet to hear a response. The best of the bad situation would be that RDB continues on but Oracle RDBMS stops.
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HP Pro
Ian Miller.
Posts: 4,370
Registered: ‎06-03-2003
Message 8 of 30 (1,034 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

HP's information portal for its response to the Oracle announcement is at:
http://www.hp.com/go/customersfirst

According to the Oracle web site RDB 7.2 will be supported to at least 2016

You can write to Oracle with your opinion
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Raperswil
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎09-05-2007
Message 9 of 30 (1,034 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

Unbelievable move by Oracle. I wish they'd leave RDB alone and let it continue on VMS.

The sites I have worked have already begun migrating away from VMS to Solaris/Linux for Oracle Server DBs. VMS did not receive much love from Oracle for the Oracle Server DB.

RDB/VMS: it'll be good opportunity to migrate applications too, not just the DBs.

I wonder though, why HP didn't go the route of Oracle/MS/IBM and buy up enterprise software.
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Honored Contributor
P Muralidhar Kini
Posts: 897
Registered: ‎03-14-2010
Message 10 of 30 (1,034 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

Hi,

Some more links -
http://ai-soft.com/uncategorized/oracle-vs-hp-the-sniping-continues/
http://www.rttnews.com/Content/BreakingNews.aspx?Id=1582378

The battle is certainly on between HP and Oracle. Interesting to read previous posts, to know the actions taken by customers based on this move by Oracle.

Just wondering what could be the next move (and by whom) :)

Regards,
Murali
Let There Be Rock - AC/DC
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Honored Contributor
labadie_1
Posts: 1,221
Registered: ‎08-07-2003
Message 11 of 30 (999 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

Some big companies could announce they port some databases to VMS.

For example, suppose HP decides to help Ingres port the latest version of their database to Alpha or Itanium.
Or suppose IBM decides to port PostgreSQL to VMS Alpha and Itanium.

This would suppose the top management is bright...
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HP Pro
Ian Miller.
Posts: 4,370
Registered: ‎06-03-2003
Message 12 of 30 (999 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

INGRE 9.2 is already available on OpenVMS Alpha and I64.

There is a report of the current Ingres 10 being built on current VMS.

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Regular Advisor
Bill Pedersen
Posts: 113
Registered: ‎08-20-2008
Message 13 of 30 (1,001 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

I have a build of Ingres 10.1, Community Version, on OpenVMS I64 V8.4. It seems to work without issue. It took a while to get the build environment to work but it does run and SQL executes against the DB via JDBC - since am working in that environment.

I have a VMSINSTAL kit available if there is interest.

Bill.
Bill Pedersen
CCSS - Computer Consulting System Services, LLC

Telephone: 864-490-8863
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HP Pro
Ian Miller.
Posts: 4,370
Registered: ‎06-03-2003
Message 14 of 30 (999 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

Oracle have released some details

www.oracle.com/itanium


11gR2 11.2.0.3 is the last planned DB release for HP-UX on Itanium, and 10gR2 10.2.0.5 is the last planned DB release for OVMS, Windows and Linux on Itanium. For RDB last release is RDB 7.3 for Itanium.

If this is not want you want then do let Oracle know. They need your business.
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labadie_1
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Message 15 of 30 (999 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

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Ian Miller.
Posts: 4,370
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Message 16 of 30 (999 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

Oracle DBMS is Oracle Database is it not?

in which case 11gr2 is the last version on Itainium
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Honored Contributor
Hoff
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Message 17 of 30 (999 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

If you open up porting to a different database as an option, then (at the scale that most organizations tend to use Oracle) porting to another platform (with or without Oracle) is usually also an option.

Digging out and dusting off and adjusting all of the database-specific accretions(1) that are implemented within legacy databases can be a big project in any database migration.

And that's before you look at both the supporting tools, and whatever odd extensions to SQL might be in use within the environment, or at the tools and compilers involved around any embedded SQL usage.

And given typical license and support prices, the environments with the "low hanging fruit" and with the "easy stuff" have often already been ported.

I've had some platform ports that were easier than some database ports.

YMMV, of course.

--

(1): por ejemplo, stored procedures, triggers and rules and key constraints, and the whole rest of the zoo that tends to silently breed within modern databases.
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Honored Contributor
Hein van den Heuvel
Posts: 6,585
Registered: ‎05-19-2003
Message 18 of 30 (999 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium



>> Oracle DBMS is Oracle Database is it not?

No, that surely is meant to be a reference to the Oracle CODASYL DBMS which is closely tied to RDB. It is listed as a 'related' product.
It currently has the same released version number 7.2.4 and as such might not need an explicit mention.

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/database/rdb/index-086844.html


>> For me the most worrysome mention so far is the suggestion that Oracle-Oracle 10.2 would be the last version, not 11.

As Norm also suggests in C.O.V, RDB 7.3 can be seen as good news. That _is_ a news version with perhaps many more sub-versions to come as proper customer support might require that.
In a conversations over a billiards game with some RDB engineer last Friday that is the current, optimistic, thinking. Yeah they are worried. They may become innocent victims caught in the crossfire.

Let's just wait for the dust to settle some.

fwiw,
Hein
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Honored Contributor
Hein van den Heuvel
Posts: 6,585
Registered: ‎05-19-2003
Message 19 of 30 (999 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

Kevin Duffy, RDB manager @ Oracle send out a clear, and positive, RDB update earlier this evening to the oraclerdb@jcc.com mailing list.

It seems to match my earlier understanding of the situation.
With respect to the RDBMS question it talks about the RDB family being: "Oracle Rdb, Oracle CODASYL DBMS, Oracle CDD/Repository, Oracle SQL/Services,... and more"

Unfortunately it also confirms Oracle-Oracle 10.2.5 as a final release on OpenVMS, not 11gR2. Bummer.

I have attached a simple text version of that messagge.

Hein

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Honored Contributor
P Muralidhar Kini
Posts: 897
Registered: ‎03-14-2010
Message 20 of 30 (999 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

Some interesting comparison -

* Compare: Ingres vs Oracle
http://database-management-systems.findthebest.com/compare/18-36/Ingres-vs-Oracle

* Comparison of relational database management systems
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_relational_database_management_systems

Regards,
Murali
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Trusted Contributor
Jeremy Begg
Posts: 380
Registered: ‎01-20-2005
Message 21 of 30 (1,015 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

It's not clear to me from the various statements whether OpenVMS Alpha is being lumped in with OpenVMS Itanium or not. In other words, will Oracle continue to port new versions of their major products to OpenVMS at all?

Contuniing Alpha while discontinuing Itanium would only make sense if they had lots of Alpha customers (and very few Itanium customers).

Jeremy Begg
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Martin Vorlaender
Posts: 708
Registered: ‎03-28-2004
Message 22 of 30 (1,015 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

Jeremy,

Oracle had announced before that 10gR2 would be the final release for OpenVMS Alpha, see e.g. http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/226#comment-1861

cu,
Martin
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HP Pro
Ian Miller.
Posts: 4,370
Registered: ‎06-03-2003
Message 23 of 30 (1,015 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

A pointer to the message from Kevin Duffy on the JCC email list server

http://www.jcc.com/search/rdblistserver/current/4d61ec9c.htm
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Valued Contributor
Mike Kier
Posts: 102
Registered: ‎05-18-2003
Message 24 of 30 (1,015 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

I hadn't thought about the impact to CDD. We use it fairly extensively via the Fortran Dictionary statement and for TDMS/DECforms and even a little Datatrieve.

We don't currently use any Oracle database products on VMS although we were evaluating the possibility of using 10g as a bridge to our Unix environments which use Oracle.

We're currently using a non-SQL-based db product with a lot of host language calls using that vendor's language (bordering on several thousand routines).

We've been looking at upgrading from 7.3-2 to 8.3 or 8.4 on Alpha preparatory to beginning an Itanium migration, but I suspect upper management will take an even longer "wait and see" position and re-raise the re-platform issue once again.
Practice Random Acts of VMS Marketing
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Trusted Contributor
John McL
Posts: 280
Registered: ‎02-24-2008
Message 25 of 30 (1,015 Views)

Re: Oracle & Itanium

A June 9 report from TechEye.net says that HP has gone legal over Oracle's proposed withdrawal.

Also an earlier (24 March) report about Oracle, HP and Integrity, see http://www.techeye.net/chips/very-unseemly-row-breaks-out-over-intel-itanium

Both reports came from Mike Magee, whose accuracy has sometimes been questioned (e.g. progress when VMS ported). He does however regard VMS quite favourable, saying in the second of the above "...the very robust OpenVMS ..."

Just thought you might like to know.


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