Re: New Format (2345 Views)
Reply
Outstanding Contributor
DavidZuts
Posts: 15,487
Registered: ‎02-27-2006
Message 1 of 36 (2,389 Views)

New Format

[ Edited ]

Let me be the first to give a thumbs down to the new format. Trying to find anything is a pure disaster. You have filled the screen with to many items that makes navigating difficult. Let me also be the first to voice my displeasure with the format and the lack of the leaders in each category. One of the reasons I post to this board besides trying to help others in the printing and digital sections is to gain kudos which put me at the top in both printing and digital forums. I took pride in being able to tell my customers that I was the top poster on your forum and they could be assured they had a capable technician on their site to take care of their printer issues. Why bother having kudos if you now do not show your leaders. The other reason the kudos listing was good was it gave new posters with questions a way to rate the responses they received, especially if the poster was one of the top posters in that forum. Now anyone can post whatever they want being good or bad information and the person with the problem has no way to evaluate the expertise of the person making the post. I think you really need to go back to the drawing board and take the good things from the old (not that old) forums and find some way to integrate that with your new items. The first thing you need to do is return to the listing at the Community Home that lists all the forums in alphabetical order as before.  Also I just noticed that when I make a post to a thread I have to go all the way to the top of the page to return to the thread listing.  Before I was able to click a link at the bottom where I just posted to return to the thread listing.  When a thread is rather long it takes a long time to scroll to the top of the listing to click on the link.  Also you seem to give priorty to the old enterprise printing and digital forum which was the old ITRC forum which has much less information than the old Business Support Printing and Digital Forum.  Even though the Enterprise has more sections it has less information and needs to be integrated into the Small and Medium Business Printing and Digital Information.  It is ridiculous to have one forum with color and black and white pritners while the other has laserjet and inkjet, etc.  Combine them for better access by people needing help.

Honored Contributor
Hein van den Heuvel
Posts: 6,588
Registered: ‎05-19-2003
Message 2 of 36 (2,376 Views)

Re: New Format

[ Edited ]

Let me be a second to give a thumbs down to the new format.

(allthough I did not agree at all with the reasons the OP listed)

 

Just when you think they could not possibly make it any worse... they do.

 

Haloween prank gone awry? What a nightmare.

Stop playing with the crayons already and do some real work to make this mess better.

The old crap...

- Can't login using Chrome... Bad Gateway.

- Have to re-login all the time ... Hotmail, Gmail, Yahoo, Facebook, Twitter all have a button to keep me logged in, are they all stupid  failuers and is HP so much smarter or is HP perhaps just a bunch of super arrogant NIH fans?

- IE (6.0) screen keeps jumping while typing

New crap...

- Terrible performance.

- ZERO, aboslutely ZERO actual content on the first click. Check the attache Jpeg please.

- More crappy smiley faces in blocks of glamor to present totally redundant information

- I selected : http://h30499.www3.hp.com/t5/OpenVMS/ct-p/itrc-288

... Now I get 120 pixels of black, 170 artwork,  50 pixels of actual useful data, 100 more pixels of redundant white header, 100 pixels of  artificial categories i happen not to care about (but that's me),  And then 500 pixels for a 4 - way menu that leads nowhere useful. Score : 50 out 1000. How high is your screen  ( I use 2x1600x1200)

- In the first 500 pixels the word COMMUNITY is repeated on 3 lines, and my choice of  'OpenVMS' is also there on 3 lines.  And nothing else.  Once would seem enough.

- I picked OpenVMS... ALL OF IT, but I now I have to drill down in each sub-Category or whatever you call those?

- Latests topics show (just 2?!) OpenVMS topics. Ok. But  when I click on 'see all' under that, I get to see topics from all over the place! Printers, PCs, OMS,....  WTF !?!?!

 

Dissapointing, very dissappointing.

Sadly not unexpected though. HP has a knack for picking form over function.

Anything to please management!

 

Cheers,

Hein

 

 

Honored Contributor
Steven Schweda
Posts: 9,096
Registered: ‎02-23-2005
Message 3 of 36 (2,372 Views)

Re: New Format

> Dissapointing, very dissappointing.

> Sadly not unexpected though. HP has a knack for picking form over function.

 

   That pretty well sums up my impression.


   It's hard to imagine why anyone would confuse all this
appearance-churn with actual improvement.  "Form over function" is bad
enough, but when even the form is degraded, it takes function along for
the ride.  A casual observer might conclude that the morons-in-charge
were guided only by some vacuous slogan, like, say, "Change is Good".


   It'd be funny if it weren't so sad.

Honored Contributor
Stephan.
Posts: 512
Registered: ‎10-31-2002
Message 4 of 36 (2,365 Views)

Re: New Format

[ Edited ]

I'm just speechless ... I really believed this one would change a lot regarding usabillity but ...

 

Instead of white space we have now black space, no more forum tree structure, non readable text (blue on black - seriously? Just found black on black in the HP-UX Category header - this makes it even better -.- ), buttons overlaying status informations (autosave draft behind Spell Check + Quote), lots of useless links under user settings, .... I just have no idea where to start and where to stop ... 

 

My advice to the lithium guys, put this in the trash can and get a different job - thanks!

Honored Contributor
Peter Marko
Posts: 718
Registered: ‎02-18-2008
Message 5 of 36 (2,356 Views)

Re: New Format

[ Edited ]

I still hope this is just some sort of a joke
I would like to see all the 12years old who requested this ...

With every update it's less focused on the technical user and more on the facebook kids

The space for real information is about 600 pixels max now? What about the crap around - who needs that? Who needs more than 300 share options?

And again the page formating ... do you even test it before going live or just fix the issues as users report?

 

Outstanding Contributor
Pete Randall
Posts: 16,205
Registered: ‎11-03-1996
Message 6 of 36 (2,345 Views)

Re: New Format

Let me be the first to say      Goodbye.


Pete
Acclaimed Contributor
James R. Ferguson
Posts: 21,184
Registered: ‎07-06-2000
Message 7 of 36 (2,318 Views)

Re: New Format

HP Management:

 

Hein summed it up well: "Dissapointing, very dissappointing.. HP has a knack for picking form over function."

 

It isn't even worth enumerating what's wrong as that's been done time and time again. I wonder why for years you have solicited user input only to foist *this* on the people that *are* your community.

 

You have finally succeeded in destroying what was once a grand, highly useful, friendly place.  By that I mean the old ITRC Forums born in 2000.  This year's earlier "upgrade" built a coffin.  This "upgrade" put the nails in it.

 

You have lost sight of why professional forums exist: to create deep pockets of expertise and knowledge that can be easily mined, sifted, added to, discussed, re-evaluated and disseminated.

 

Keep worrying about your corporate image and pretty pictures.  Without contributors, though,  there won't be a "social presence" for very long.

 

...JRF...

 

 

Community Manager
Warren_Admin
Posts: 186
Registered: ‎03-16-2007
Message 8 of 36 (2,294 Views)

Re: New Format

Some functionalities are not yet fully realized, as you have noticed. We continue to roll out new features as we move along. To answer a few specific questions:

 

Bad Gateway: This is such a generic error message (think "unspecified error") that it can be caused by a server mis-communication, an overfull cache - on the server or on your system - or even a malformed cookie. The usual "clear your cache and cookies" sometimes fixes this, and sometimes it just goes away. It's like restarting - did that fix the problem or just mask it?

 

Login timeouts: In this day when you read every other day about some major hack attack, security has become a larger and larger (and more annoying) piece of the online experience. While some sites have "keep me logged in" buttons, they may be less secure than we would like to think.

 

IE6 issue: This may be related to a plug-in.

 

Missing content: This is related to the rollout taking longer than expected. Strong feedback we have received suggested that prolonged outages during migrations were not good. We are still deploying new functionalities.

 

The width of the forum windows: We have deployed a wider window for our blogs, and initial feedback is positive, so we are working on a similar update for your forums. This is why we need your feedback, and welcome it.

 

Navigation: One of the new functionalities coming soon is a full, easy to use site map.

 

See All: You have identified a logical issue, pervasive across the Community. We are working on it, and should have the functionality in place very soon.

 

Thank you,
Warren_Admin, HP Enterprise Community Manager
Opinions are my own and not intended to represent HP

Honored Contributor
Hein van den Heuvel
Posts: 6,588
Registered: ‎05-19-2003
Message 9 of 36 (2,263 Views)

Re: New Format

Thanks for a reasonable reply Warren.

 

I big to differ though

 

> >caused by a server mis-communication

SERVER indeed, how I can I fix that?

>> an overfull cache - on the server or on your system

I have never ever seen or heard or otherwise experienced an 'overfull cace' on my client systems. 

Must be the Server then right?

>> or even a malformed cookie.

And who/what gave me that bad cookie? Ah... the HP server right? How can I fix that?

>> The usual "clear your cache and cookies" sometimes fixes this, 

That may be usual in your (HP) world, but not where I come from

 

 

>> While some sites have "keep me logged in" buttons, they may be less secure than we would like to think.

 

That's what I mean. Arrogant, Not-Invented-Here attitude.

HP knows better huh? Just give me the option. Add an  'accept security risk' checkmark to that if you must.

I my world there is zero risk for keeping an open Passport to HP.

 

Kindest regards,

Hein

 

Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 25,274
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 10 of 36 (2,223 Views)

Re: New Format

>non readable text (blue on black - seriously?

 

I was creating a reply and all of a sudden I get black on black with red up arrows and I see the bad html message.  I when back and forth between Rich Text and Preview and I finally got my edit window back.

 

>Just found black on black in the HP-UX Category header - this makes it even better -.- ),

 

Probably just as well, you didn't want to read about HP-UX Gems anyway.  :-)

 

>buttons overlaying status information (autosave draft behind Spell Check + Quote

 

Yes, I noticed that on firefox.

 

>lots of useless links under user settings

 

And no convenient link to the Feedback board on the category pages.  I have to drag down the Discussion Boards menu at the top.

Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 25,274
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 11 of 36 (2,220 Views)

Re: New Format (bad gateway, Quick links)

[ Edited ]

>Bad Gateway: This is such a generic error message (think "unspecified error") that it can be caused by a server mis-communication, an overfull cache - on the server or on your system - or even a malformed cookie. The usual "clear your cache and cookies" sometimes fixes this

 

Then why not say all of this?

 

>The width of the forum windows: We have deployed a wider window for our blogs, and initial feedback is positive, so we are working on a similar update for your forums.

 

Has anyone requested wider windows on the discussion boards?  Let the bloggers have what they want and leave the boards alone.

 

>Navigation: One of the new functionalities coming soon is a full, easy to use site map.

 

Has anyone looked at the "Quick Links" menu?

The only one that works is the Community FAQ one.  All of the others point back to the current page, with a "#" added to the end of the URL.

Under "User Settings" there are similar but fewer dead links.

Honored Contributor
V. Nyga
Posts: 4,874
Registered: ‎09-20-2002
Message 12 of 36 (2,214 Views)

Re: New Format

... and where is my 'floated boards' list?

One useful think of all changes just can't be seen anymore.

My wanted boards are still 'floated' but there's no list I can use.

 

HP DO your job, please!

 

V.

*** Say 'Thanks' with Kudos ***
Honored Contributor
John Gillings
Posts: 2,995
Registered: ‎07-31-2003
Message 13 of 36 (2,178 Views)

Re: New Format

[ Edited ]

 

>> While some sites have "keep me logged in" buttons, they may be less secure than we would like to think.

 

Have you read "Catch 22" by Joseph Heller? There's a thread where Milo Minderbinder starts to get people to sign loyalty oaths. This escalates to the point where everyone needed to sign one for clearance to do just about anything, down to using the latrine.

 

We laugh at the blatant absurdity in the story, but now we're living the reality, and HP somehow thinks this is reasonable or even justifiable?

 

The security of my desktop is MY concern. It's not yours to impose your ideas on how I should run my system. It's not as if ITRC has access to any financial accounts, or anything of any real importance. Why do you insist that I have to type my password everytime I want to do anything with it? I've typed my ITRC password more times this week (and it's only Tuesday) than I did for the first FIVE YEARS of ITRC contributions. In all that time the password has been the same. I'm fairly certain that no one has ever compromised it, or even considered stealing it. Why would they bother? This isn't the crown jewels!

 

Maybe the use iof black text on a black background is also HPs idea of "security"?

 

Overzealous policies in the name of increasing security are often counterproductive. I could well imagine people being tempted to reduce the length of their password to the minimum requirments.

  

You say you're listening. How about stopping trying to make things flashy and pretty and just make things WORK? Starting with copy and paste that behaves like every other text window on the planet. Next would be to make windows that render properly, have readable text and don't jump around

 

> IE6 issue: This may be related to a plug-in.

 

  And that absolves HP? Which plug in? How do I fix it? I get the same symptom Hein describes in IE8.

 

Another option which the rapid decline in the flow of posts would suggest most folk are taking is to just give up and leave.

A crucible of informative mistakes
Honored Contributor
Robert_Jewell
Posts: 1,239
Registered: ‎06-26-2001
Message 14 of 36 (2,172 Views)

Re: New Format

HP, I was trying, really I was, to make the most out of the new format....this "upgrade" really makes it wonder if its worth it now?  What is in store next quarter? Keep your fluff in your pillows please.

 

As JRF states, the problems and issues have been told here again and again.  Im just voicing my displeasure here.

 

-Bob

 

 

Honored Contributor
Steven Schweda
Posts: 9,096
Registered: ‎02-23-2005
Message 15 of 36 (2,169 Views)

Re: New Format

   I don't mean to sound radical, but if the primary reason for having a
single sign-on for multiple purposes (purchasing, paid support, user
forums, ...) was user convenience, then it may have been a fundamental
mistake.  If some user tasks require significant security ("Here, take
all my money.") while others require almost none ("Yes, these opinions
are my opinions."), then it may make very little sense to demand the
same (maximally strict) security for all these tasks.

   Assuming that a one-hour time-out actually improves security, then a
less stupid scheme might, for example, have a one-hour time-out for
privileged tasks (like, say, spending money), while allowing
"Who-cares?" tasks like participation in user forums to persist
indefinitely, as with the previous (generally superior) forum system.
If someone at some time wants to perform some privileged task, and he
hasn't provided any credentials for a while, then he could be asked to
re-verify before allowing him access to the company store.

   Of course, with all the fundamental mistakes involved in this whole
abominable forum conversion, it would have been easy for this particular
one to get lost.

> [...] HP somehow thinks this is reasonable or even justifiable?

   HP apparently thinks that the new (randomly selected) user pictures
are so shiny that no one will care about the actual functionality (or
lack thereof).  Which may be true for the majority of the remaining
users.

Community Manager
Warren_Admin
Posts: 186
Registered: ‎03-16-2007
Message 16 of 36 (2,162 Views)

Re: New Format

Perspective: Last Wednesday in several local papers in northern Colorado was an article about a local "multiplex" theater (that's not the name) whose customer database was hacked. One piece of user data they collected was credit card numbers. Accounts on well known social media sites are compromised - repeatedly. So web sites running the gamut from those where money is exchanged to those showing pictures of our dogs and sharing favorite jokes all require some level of security, probably more than they have. One of the problems with security is that it seems like a "yes or no" question, to paraphrase Steven. I'm not telling you anything you don't know.

 

One of my own pet peeves is the number of user names and passwords, all with different length and strength requirements, that I have to maintain to get into the myriad of web sites I use in my daily life, both work and home. Certainly single-sign-on solves part of that dilemma.

 

Thank you,
Warren_Admin, HP Enterprise Community Manager
Opinions are my own and not intended to represent HP

 

Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 25,274
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 17 of 36 (2,151 Views)

Re: New Format (missing headers in profile)

[ Edited ]

I was looking at my profile and at the bottom I see two lists but they no longer have any titles!

 

Actually ALL three lists don't have titles, except for the columns:

Lists of recent post

List of recent kudos received

List of recent kudos given

 

If you are worried about vertical spacing, you could put the title on the View All line.

 

 

Honored Contributor
Hein van den Heuvel
Posts: 6,588
Registered: ‎05-19-2003
Message 18 of 36 (2,151 Views)

Re: New Format

@John.. violant agreement. As usual.

 

@ Steven.. agreed:

 

>> Assuming that a one-hour time-out actually improves security, then a
less stupid scheme might, for example, have a one-hour time-out for
privileged tasks (like, say, spending money), while allowing
"Who-cares?"

 

Yes,.

 

>> tasks like participation in user forums to persist
indefinitely, as with the previous (generally superior) forum system.
If someone at some time wants to perform some privileged task, and he
hasn't provided any credentials for a while, then he could be asked to
re-verify before allowing him access to the company store.

 

Right. Like other system where you may have to re-enter a password when you want to change the password.

Or a store site, where you can toss stuff in _your_ basket forever, but when it comes to 'commit' and pay, you need to re-enter a password.

 

Cheers,

Hein

 

Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 25,274
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 19 of 36 (2,148 Views)

Re: New Format (floated board missing on main EBC forum)

[ Edited ]

>and where is my 'floated boards' list?

 

I don't remember this.  Was this on your profile?

It's still there under Subscriptions & Bookmarks > Bookmarks, with type == topic.

 

It does appear on each category page but no longer on the main EBC forum page.  :-(

Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 25,274
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 20 of 36 (2,146 Views)

Re: New Format

Another thing I noticed on items that contain categories and blogs is that you have a separate list of boards and blogs.  Unfortunately, if you are gullible click on blogs you get the same category page that you have with category.

http://h30499.www3.hp.com/t5/Partner-Solutions/ct-p/partner_solutions

 

Not sure if there are blog only categories where this may be useful clicking?

Honored Contributor
Steven Schweda
Posts: 9,096
Registered: ‎02-23-2005
Message 21 of 36 (2,146 Views)

Re: New Format

> Right. Like other system [...]

 

   Where "other" =  "well-designed".

 

   If these features were any more obvious, then perhaps even HP would

have them.

 

   I may need to spend more time away from these forums, just to save
myself from repetitive motion injuries caused by all the head-shaking.

Honored Contributor
V. Nyga
Posts: 4,874
Registered: ‎09-20-2002
Message 22 of 36 (2,141 Views)

Re: New Format

>>and where is my 'floated boards' list?
>I don't remember this.

It was at the first forum page, where all boards and 'Last Topics' and ... appeared.
Under 'Board Options' I still can 'Remove this Board Float', but I don't see it at the 'Top' anymore.
I see it at the top of the discussion boards, but I don't see ALL at first glance!
Also I don't see unread topics of the floated boards anymore.
This both items - all interesting boards and the information about new topics/answers in these boards were the most useful points of the new forum --- gone ---.

BTW. - HP are you listening?
Why does the 'HP Support Forum' 'Powered by Lithium' works without auto-logout? Are the contributors there less vulnerable?

>whose customer database was hacked
Isn't it a server problem?
Or do you really mean a hacker can hack your server because I'm logged in? I really hpoe your sever is better protected than it sounds like...

About the re-design - what's about the 'join the conversation' label?
We ARE logged in, so we have already 'joined' the conversation (also it seems like the conversation with HP is a one-way direction).
Kevin mentioned you would think about my hint that we don't need it - why is it still there?

The black background - not eye-friendly, not user friendly -- maybe ink-selling friendly? I don't know ...
Check the 'Top Contributors' list at the first page - violett on black -- unbelievable - who gets money for such a design???

HP - PLEASE - listen!!!!
*** Say 'Thanks' with Kudos ***
Honored Contributor
Michael Leu
Posts: 508
Registered: ‎01-17-2005
Message 23 of 36 (2,132 Views)

Re: New Format

Warren_Admin, please realize that you are shooting yourself in the foot with these draconian account timeout policies. It is a huge hindrance to participating in the community if one has login all the time.

 

Steven Schweda has described the solution very well. Just take this as a clue-stick over to the HPP people and beat them thoroughly with it. And then find your DNS admins and bring some sense to them...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Navigation: Forum Site Map // ye olde ITRC Tree
@HP: please get rid of the Passport login timeout
Frequent Advisor
Leslie Fischer
Posts: 72
Registered: ‎09-05-1997
Message 24 of 36 (2,118 Views)

Re: New Format

[ Edited ]

This is one of the worst site I ever had the displeasure of trying to us.

Honored Contributor
Steven Schweda
Posts: 9,096
Registered: ‎02-23-2005
Message 25 of 36 (2,103 Views)

Re: New Format

> This site [...]

 

   Yes, it's almost as annoying as vacuous complaints about it.

The opinions expressed above are the personal opinions of the authors, not of HP. By using this site, you accept the Terms of Use and Rules of Participation.