Re: Feedback on new site (1150 Views)
Community Manager
Kevin_Paul
Posts: 953
Registered: ‎09-16-2005
Message 76 of 111 (1,230 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site


Joseph P. Smith wrote:

Problem in seeing this thread  when logged in vs. not logged in:

When not logged in I see messages  51 -72 in this thread .

When logged in I only see up to message 51, and cannot add kudos & reply msgs 52 -72.


Joseph - this is the first I've heard of this type of issue - when you say that you "only see up to message 51", are you able to see the "< Previous 1  2  Next >" heading at the top of the thread to navigate between pages?


As Pete has already said, if you have a setting in your profile for how many posts per page to display that's different from the default, you'll see a difference between when you're logged in or not (as when you're not logged in, the site-wide defaults take over) - but that shouldn't keep you from being able to access the posts.

 

If you can provide one, perhaps a screen shot would help demonstrate the behavior you're seeing...

I work for HP.
Regular Advisor
Joseph P. Smith
Posts: 98
Registered: ‎10-28-2003
Message 77 of 111 (1,218 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

Symptoms/problem no longer appear.   Magic!

Thanks for orgiginal  suggestions.

Joe S.

Esteemed Contributor
g3jza
Posts: 313
Registered: ‎01-30-2008
Message 78 of 111 (1,197 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

Well, JRF's question is still unanswered:

"It would still be very nice to have an official mapping of ranks to some "point" level(s). "

Is that so hard to publish this mapping???!

Community Manager
Kevin_Paul
Posts: 953
Registered: ‎09-16-2005
Message 79 of 111 (1,183 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site


g3jza wrote:
Well, JRF's question is still unanswered:

"It would still be very nice to have an official mapping of ranks to some "point" level(s). "

Is that so hard to publish this mapping???!


There isn't a one-to-one mapping between ITRC point levels and the ranks within this community.

 

For some background, make sure you've read

 

The ranks, and different ladders, she discusses can be based on variety of factors, including (but not limited to):

  • How long ago you registered
  • How many posts you've made
  • How many kudos you've received
  • How many tags you've applied
  • How many accepted solutions you've authored

Where as in the ITRC forums, your point level ONLY depended on how many points you had been awarded.

 

Since there are different ladders, depending on how you contribute to the community, it's not a simple matter of saying "this previous ITRC "hat" is equivalent to this new rank".

 

I work for HP.
Regular Advisor
TomSmith
Posts: 76
Registered: ‎06-29-2011
Message 80 of 111 (1,175 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

From the document,

 

"Ranks are used to indicate the number, quality, and impact of your posts"

 

Who determines the "quality" and "impact" of posts, and what scale is applied?

 

-Tom

Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 25,072
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 81 of 111 (1,187 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

>it's not a simple matter of saying "this previous ITRC "hat" is equivalent to this new rank".

 

We no longer care about ITRC hats, we know we were hosed.

We would like more details, the source code and or flowchart that can be applied to a given profile to produce the given rank.

Unless it requires analysis of each topic/post, rather than raw aggregate numbers?

 

Or just tell us:  Ranks are to impress newbies.  Otherwise it's the stinkin' kudos

 

>Who determines the "quality" and "impact" of posts, and what scale is applied?

 

I assume software, given certain rules.  :-)

Basically, kudos and solves?  (I'd hate to think it is number of views.)

Neighborhood Admin
BGroot
Posts: 1,178
Registered: ‎11-26-2007
Message 82 of 111 (1,172 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

>Who determines the "quality" and "impact" of posts, and what scale is applied?

 

Members determine that based on the kudos's they give to a answer to their question. Please correct me if I was wrong but in ITRC the only the person who could give points was the person that submitted the question. So in fact that person determine the quality of the answer he/she was getting. In the community the owner of the post but also others could determine if that answer was a good one and could give the post a kudos. I am not saying it is a better way, but it gives others a chance to also appreciate the post with a kudo.

 

 

Outstanding Contributor
Pete Randall
Posts: 16,205
Registered: ‎11-03-1996
Message 83 of 111 (1,168 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

[ Edited ]

>  Members determine that based on the kudos's they give to a answer

 

So we've basically managed to turn this into a popularity contest?  Wonderful.  :smileymad:

 

But I like Bill so I'll give his lousy answer a kudo!!


Pete
Honored Contributor
Peter Marko
Posts: 718
Registered: ‎02-18-2008
Message 84 of 111 (1,164 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site


Pete Randall wrote:

>  Members determine that based on the kudos's they give to a answer

 

So we've basically managed to turn this into a popularity contest?  Wonderful.  :smileymad:

 

But I like Bill so I'll give his lousy answer a kudo!!


HP Idol :smileyvery-happy:

Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 25,072
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 85 of 111 (1,162 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

>Members determine that based on the kudos's they give to a answer to their question.

 

You are making this too simple.

We want to know the rank formula:

Rank_value = C1 * kudos + C2 * posts + C3 * tags + C4 * whatever

Then various ranges.

Outstanding Contributor
Pete Randall
Posts: 16,205
Registered: ‎11-03-1996
Message 86 of 111 (1,157 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

Screw it - I like almost everybody.  Unless they didn't do a satisfactory job of answering my question, kudos for all!!!!


Pete
Honored Contributor
Peter Marko
Posts: 718
Registered: ‎02-18-2008
Message 87 of 111 (1,151 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

Be careful with the kudos - I'm sensing a negative kudos applet comming ;)
Neighborhood Admin
BGroot
Posts: 1,178
Registered: ‎11-26-2007
Message 88 of 111 (1,146 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

Hi Pete,

 

Thanks for the kudo. I am not saying it is a better way, I am just explaining how it works. It's not a popularity contest, but you need to give members a chance to determine if they feel something is valuable. In some cases in ITRC high points were given where others believe it shouldn't be given, but that is up to the member to determine that.

 

I have seen a lot of messages around the kudos, but that is how the system works. I can't change that, but the message around the kudos is clear and all we can do now is noted it down and see down the road what we can do to improve this.

 

Greetings,

 

Bill

Acclaimed Contributor
James R. Ferguson
Posts: 21,184
Registered: ‎07-06-2000
Message 89 of 111 (1,146 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site


Kevin_Paul wrote:

 

The ranks, and different ladders, she discusses can be based on variety of factors, including (but not limited to):

  • How long ago you registered
  • How many posts you've made
  • How many kudos you've received
  • How many tags you've applied
  • How many accepted solutions you've authored

Where as in the ITRC forums, your point level ONLY depended on how many points you had been awarded.

 

Since there are different ladders, depending on how you contribute to the community, it's not a simple matter of saying "this previous ITRC "hat" is equivalent to this new rank".

 


Kevin:

 

I know that you are just the messenger, but you are who we have.  Hence, once again, what *formula*, or *algorithm* if you prefer, is actually used to put a label next to a name?   Why is this so secret?

 

I don't think any of us ever expected to have an old versus new rank mapping.  That's not what I'm asking and to believe that is an over simplification of the question.  You have offered some of the criteria that go into composing the new rankings, now just give us the formula, or weights of each criterion, or something concrete!  Oh, and since you hinted that your criteria list isn't exhaustive, please add the missing pieces to it too.

 

...JRF...

Neighborhood Admin
BGroot
Posts: 1,178
Registered: ‎11-26-2007
Message 90 of 111 (1,143 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

Hi all,

 

Kevin is not available until next week, but I will discuss this with him when he is available to see what we can do about this issue.

 

Greetings,

 

Bill

Honored Contributor
Steven Schweda
Posts: 9,089
Registered: ‎02-23-2005
Message 91 of 111 (1,159 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

> [...]  Why is this so secret?

   Perhaps because there are people who think that this (stupid) scoring
scheme is as important a matter as the previous (stupid) scoring scheme
that they will spend (waste) all this time (endlessly?) discussing it,
and that suggests that some of them would put comparable effort into
gaming the system if the system were well understood.

   The real mystery to me is not how the system works, but why anyone
(grown-up) actually cares.

Regular Advisor
Joseph P. Smith
Posts: 98
Registered: ‎10-28-2003
Message 92 of 111 (1,150 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

Mystery solved!   Rankings indicate to some degree the trustworthiness of the answer; for me it's quick indication when scrolling through answers, "Oh, this is place to stop and read."  They have a real effect on us who need answers.  After a while we'll know who has a bloated rank, and who has the goods, but until then there has to be some faith, or at least understanding, in how they are determined.

 

For me the rankings are so numerous and so indistinct that they almost have no meaning.  Do the rankings have sufficient validity and reliability?  Do they reflect real-world validation in the application of the proposed solution?  I was stunned by my own rank as "frequent advisor".  REALLY?  "How frequently" and "how well-advised" are my questions.  (If by submitting this reply, my ranking is elevated, I reject it ... see Groucho Marx).

 

As an interesting exercise, if a group of persons were asked to sort a random list ing of the ranks into their understanding of how the ranks are listed in real life, and then compare those results to the actual hierarchy, how well would those lists correlate?

 

Rankings are a facet of this new site, and the fairness and transparency of how they're determined is not trivial.  If this is a "community", then all of us should have an understanding and perhaps a voice in rankings (supposedly we do by issuing "kudos", but that's only a part of the formula, if one exists).  Cynically, perhaps I err in going with the community idea, and should remember that it's really about marketing.

Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 25,072
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 93 of 111 (1,130 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

[ Edited ]

>Unless they didn't do a satisfactory job of answering my question, kudos for all!!!!

 

Rats, now we have to be nice to Pete or he will revoke his kudos. :-)

http://h30499.www3.hp.com/t5/help/faqpage/faq-category-id/kudos#kudos

Outstanding Contributor
Pete Randall
Posts: 16,205
Registered: ‎11-03-1996
Message 94 of 111 (1,129 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

I didn't even know you could take them back - not that I ever would! :smileysurprised:


Pete
Outstanding Contributor
Pete Randall
Posts: 16,205
Registered: ‎11-03-1996
Message 95 of 111 (1,127 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

Now here's something interesting.  As of this morning, I can no longer click on the kudos to find out who has awarded them.   Can someone explain to me why all this mystery surrounding kudos and rankings and titles and the rest of this crap is necessary?  Bill?  Kevin?  Anyone?  I'll even give you a kudo!


Pete
Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 25,072
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 96 of 111 (1,126 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

>I didn't even know you could take them back

 

On the post with the kudos, the Options menu has: Revoke My kudos

Acclaimed Contributor
Dennis Handly
Posts: 25,072
Registered: ‎03-06-2006
Message 97 of 111 (1,122 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

>I can no longer click on the kudos to find out who has awarded them.

 

We think alike, I just tried to do that too (and failed)

Outstanding Contributor
Pete Randall
Posts: 16,205
Registered: ‎11-03-1996
Message 98 of 111 (1,119 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

Well you might be able to guess that Pete "Kudos For All" Randall handed out a few in this thread, but I'm not the only one and now we'll never know.

 

This whole kudo crap is becoming increasingly more meaningless.


Pete
Honored Contributor
Peter Marko
Posts: 718
Registered: ‎02-18-2008
Message 99 of 111 (1,117 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

You have probably overkudoed the system :)
Outstanding Contributor
Pete Randall
Posts: 16,205
Registered: ‎11-03-1996
Message 100 of 111 (1,114 Views)

Re: Feedback on new site

Good!  I hope I broke it.  It's useless and meaningless.


Pete
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