HP 50g Key to Key Assignments (2666 Views)
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Occasional Advisor
Noisybits
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎08-13-2010
Message 1 of 13 (2,666 Views)

HP 50g Key to Key Assignments

Although HP guides and tutorials, and various forums, agree that the 50g keys can be fully reassigned in the USER keyboard, some detail is lacking for the special cases.

 

I wish to reassign certain keys.  Specifically, I wish to reassign

 

1) the ENTER key function (keycode 105) to the ALPHA key (keycode 71),

2) the ALPHA key function (keycode 71) to the ENTER key (keycode 105), and

3) the "ALPHA-right-shift-6" key function (which is the hidden keyboard character for the "angle" symbol) to the SYMB key (keycode 44).

 

In my numerous attempts, the key's names, as an example, may be reassigned, but those key's functions are not.  In particular, what would be the name of the "ALPHA-right-shift-6" stroke sequence (for the "angle" symbol) that should be placed in the RPN command, {"ALPHA-right-shift-6" 44} STOKEYS, in order to display that "angle" symbol upon pressing SYMB (keycode 44)?  It's obviously not "ALPHA-right-shift-6".

 

Anyone's help would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.

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Honored Contributor
Miguel Angel Caporalini
Posts: 2,392
Registered: ‎02-09-2009
Message 2 of 13 (2,655 Views)

Re: HP 50g Key to Key Assignments

Hi!, Noisybits:

 

IMHO, the ENTER and ALPHA key, should not change.

You can see, the Tutorial ASN commands, from attachment file (clip).

If you needed other consult's (DELKEYS, RCLKEYS, STOKEYS).

Remember configure ... Flags: User-Mode Lock (–61) and User Mode (–62) affect the status of the user keyboard.

 

Best Regards.

MACH.:smileyhappy:

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Honored Contributor
Miguel Angel Caporalini
Posts: 2,392
Registered: ‎02-09-2009
Message 3 of 13 (2,653 Views)

Re: HP 50g Key to Key Assignments

Hi!, Noisybits:

 

Excuse me ... If you needed perform other's consult's (DELKEYS, RCLKEYS, STOKEYS), you can see the Manuals and Guide, from ...

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/DocumentIndex.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&contentType=Support...

 

Best Regards.

MACH.:smileyhappy:

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Occasional Advisor
Noisybits
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎08-13-2010
Message 4 of 13 (2,643 Views)

Re: HP 50g Key to Key Assignments

I respect your humble opinion, Miguel, but I, nevertheless, very much wish to interchange the ALPHA and ENTER keys.  I am a very, very long-time user of HP calculators (though not the 50g) and find myself always looking, through habit, for the ENTER key next to the 7 key, where it's been located on prior HP calculators.

 

Regardless of your opinion, do you know how the make this ALPHA/ENTER key interchange assignment?

 

Do you know how to assign the "ALPHA-right-shift-6" function to keycode 44?

 

I am quite familiar with STOKEYS, RCLKEYS and DELKEYS, as well as the tutorials mentioned in the original request, but cannot formulate the arguments for STOKEYS to bring about the changes requested above.

 

In any case, thank you for your input.

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Occasional Advisor
Noisybits
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎08-13-2010
Message 5 of 13 (2,624 Views)

Re: HP 50g Key to Key Assignments

Purely by chance, I have resolved one of the three issues I raised in the original request...

 

For those who want to know, to replace the three keystrokes for the "angle" symbol (normally ALPHA-right-shift-6) with a single keystroke at keycode 44 (the SYMB key)...execute the following command:

 

{"..." 44} ENTER ALPHA ALPHA  S  T  O  K  E  Y  S  ENTER

 

where the ellipsis (...) between the double quotes (" ") represents the successive pressing of the ALPHA key, the right-shift key, and the 6 key.  The critical step here was enclosing the ALPHA-right-shift-6 keystrokes within double quotes.  (Note that, rather than spelling out the STOKEYS command, the {"..." 44} portion of the above command could simply be typed while in the soft-keys menu found at...left-shift PRG NXT MODES KEYS...and then pressing the STOKEYS soft-menu key at F2.)

 

I still cannot resolve the issue of switching the ENTER and ALPHA keys in the USER keyboard!  Does anyone have any ideas about how to bring about these interchanged key assignments?

 

Again, any assistance would be appreciated.

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Honored Contributor
Miguel Angel Caporalini
Posts: 2,392
Registered: ‎02-09-2009
Message 6 of 13 (2,623 Views)

Re: HP 50g Key to Key Assignments

Hi!, Noisybits:

 

Try with Keyman. Download from ... http://www.hpcalc.org/search.php?query=keyman+plus&hp49=1

 

Note: If you know SysRPL system, you can see the method for ASN Key's, from ...

http://www.hpcalc.org/search.php?query=kalinowski

 

Programming in System RPL (PDF) 2nd Edition

Second edition of the free on-line book "Programming in System RPL", a 640-page tutorial and reference for System RPL programmers. This second edition has many improvements and describes new features present in the HP 49G calculator. In Adobe PDF format.
By Eduardo M. Kalinowski and Carsten Dominik (H)

 

 

Best Regards.

MACH.:smileyhappy:

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Honored Contributor
Miguel Angel Caporalini
Posts: 2,392
Registered: ‎02-09-2009
Message 7 of 13 (2,597 Views)

Re: HP 50g Key to Key Assignments

Hi!, Noisybits:

 

Please, see page 202 (30.1), the explanation for key assignements, in the file attached.

 

Best Regards.

MACH.:smileyhappy:

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Honored Contributor
Tim Wessman
Posts: 768
Registered: ‎01-08-2009
Message 8 of 13 (2,525 Views)

Re: HP 50g Key to Key Assignments

[ Edited ]

Sorry I didn't see this message earlier.

 

What you will want to do is to assign a simple program to your keys.

 

<< -71.1 KEYEVAL >> 105.1 ASN

 

You shoujld use ASN to do key assignments. It is easier. Even easier is using KEYMAN like was suggested since you can recall the key functionality and then reassign it through a nice menu interface.

 

The reason to use a *negative* value on your keycodes is to flag it as running the *original* keyfunction. KEYEVAL will then always evaluate the base function of the key, and not any custom functionality you have assigned.

 

You can use the same principles to change the order of the rest of your keys. Rememver however, that you will need to handle another assignment for when you are in ALPHA shift on your enter key. Otherwise it will run the regular ENTER functionality as opposed to terminating alpha. Don'f forget to handle possible shift alpha planes if you want to do a straigt up swap of the keys.

 

For the angle symbol, there may be some situations where just doing the character may not have the desired behavior. To avoid this, you can again use the keycode. << -84.6 KEYEVAL >> gives you that key.

 

If you need to see the table that details the shift planes (did you know there are 10 of them?), please see page 3-18 of the advanced user's reference. I've attached a screen grab of it on this post.

 

Let me know if you need any more help.

--

TW


Although I work for the HP calculator group, the views and comments expressed here are my own.
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Occasional Advisor
Noisybits
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎08-13-2010
Message 9 of 13 (2,496 Views)

Re: HP 50g Key to Key Assignments

Thank you, SO MUCH, Tim, for your personal response.  Since this issue has continued to consume me for many days (I will "get a life" when the issue is resolved), the delay in your response has had no ill effect.  That you responded in such detail is immensely appreciated.  I have invested so much time in this issue that I cannot abandon it now; indeed, as a research engineer and a "sometime" software developer, I retain that dogged character trait of not sleeping until "the program compiles with absolutely minimalist code."

 

Excuse the soliloquy.

 

Back on point:

 

1)  <<-71.1 KEYEVAL>> 105.1 ASN

You're right in that this assignment yields the ALPHA function only on the first press of 105.1.  Pressing 105.1 a second time, to lock the ALPHA function, yields the original ENTER function where, with an empty command line, an error is generated.  It would appear that the above assignment, of ALPHA function to 105.1, is nonfunctional when the keyboard is in both ALPHA and USR modes due to pressing 105.1 once.  I'll have to think about a second assignment to 105.1 that functions when the keyboard is in both ALPHA and USR modes, if that's even possible.  Locking ALPHA mode is possible by pressing 105.1 and then 71.1; but this defeats the purpose and requirement of pressing 105.1 twice to lock ALPHA mode.  By the way. Tim, I had experimented with KEYEVAL over the past few days, and had already discovered this anomaly.

 

2)  <<-105.1 KEYEVAL>> 71.1 ASN

This assignment, of the ENTER function to the ALPHA key, 71.1, places the contents of the command line on both stack level one and stack level two.  Again, an unworkable anomaly that I discovered days ago.  Unfortunately, <<-105.1 KEYEVAL DROP>> 71.7 ASN only works properly on the first press of 71.1; the second press, a procedure I use often with the ENTER function in order to repeat stack level one onto stack level two, makes no changes to the stack whatsoever, as is logically understandable.

 

I am interested in interchanging only the primary functions of the ENTER and ALPHA keys; the shifted ENTER and ALPHA keys may remain in factory default.

 

3)  You're also correct about the limited functionality resulting from assigning the angle symbol to a key other than ALPHA-right-shift-6.  I have, therefore, abandoned the need for frequent angle-symbol usage by utilizing other HP 50g functionality.  I won't detail that procedure unless someone posts a request to this thread.  I made that decision before experimenting with KEYMAN+. 

 

4)  My minimalist philosophy (which obviously does not apply to this verbose posting!) in engineering and computer science makes me cringe when adding more and more complexity to make things simpler and faster.  I would like to make my key re-assignments given only the functionality already designed into the 50g.  Nevertheless, given my subconscious, obsessive drive to effect the relocation of the ENTER key, I have installed KEYMAN+ and experimented.  The "long press" functionality is quite useful, while I find the "double press" a bit frustrating while the re-assigned double-press key waits for the second press when only the single-press execution was desired.  I have not yet fully digested the various functions of KEYMAN+ (yes, I've decided to "get, a bit of, a life" in the middle of all this) and so have not yet attempted my ALPHA/ENTER interchange.  I'll post my findings.  In the meantime, Tim, can you provide the keystrokes to be used through KEYMAN+ to effect the fully-functional ENTER/ALPHA interchange?  Believe it or not, I've actually emailed Dr Wolfgang Rautenberg for his take on this issue; thus far, no response, as expected.  I was hoping that he might be endeared by the doctorate-to-doctorate interaction!

 

Note that I am so determined to put the ENTER key in its traditional location, that I may, someday, take the 50G apart in order to interchange the physical keys, themselves, since they appear to be geometrically identical.  Of course, their functions would need to be interchanged first.  Tell me, Tim, would I get into a mess of adhesive joints that would be non-repairable if broken?

 

I'm dreading this, but I'm prepared to fully digest System RPL to make this interchange.  With my luck, even SysRPL hacks cannot effect this change.

 

Thank you, again, Tim, for the screen dump (rc.p already well-understood) as well as your dedicated interest in my self-imposed plight.  Although, from what I read, I'm not the only ENTER-key-location snob.

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Honored Contributor
Tim Wessman
Posts: 768
Registered: ‎01-08-2009
Message 10 of 13 (2,489 Views)

Re: HP 50g Key to Key Assignments

[ Edited ]

The reason for the strangeness is because when you are in an active edit field, it detects that, evaluates, and then executes after.

 

The KEYMAN command ->TO? will be of use here. It inserts a special command called TakeOver that signals to the system that it should evaluate the following code inside the editor and not exit first. Note that you won't see anything happen to your little keyeval programs unless you have system flag 85 set. This turns on the sysRPL decompiler for objects and you will see the internal system representation instead of the user one.

 

<< -71 KEYEVAL >> ->TO? 105 ASN

<< -71.4 KEYEVAL >> ->TO? 105.4 ASN

<< -105 KEYEVAL >> ->TO? 71 ASN

<< -105.4 KEYEVAL >> ->TO? 71.4 ASN

 

That will get you very close. Maybe close enough to be happy with. I think that might be about as close as you can get without rewriting a bunch of the system.

 

Note however that the alpha annunicator will come on while you hold the ALPHA key, and that you can't hold ENTER and type alpha. This is a limitation since the system internally keys the indicator off of the ALPHA key electricals (I just checked in the ROM code to verify).

 

I am not quite sure why ALPHA is the key you are trying to reassign. Did you come from a 15/16c or something? All other HP calcs would have the ENTER a bit to the left and above the number keys. It would be much easier to swap the +/- or EEX key with ENTER since there is nothing hardcoded about those ones.

--

TW


Although I work for the HP calculator group, the views and comments expressed here are my own.
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Occasional Advisor
Noisybits
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎08-13-2010
Message 11 of 13 (1,533 Views)

Re: HP 50g Key to Key Assignments

Again, thank you for your detailed response, Tim.  Very much appreciated!  I now understand the anomolous behavior seen thus far.

 

I don't have the 50g with me right now, so haven't tried your additional advice.  But I can, now, address your "Why ALPHA re-assignment, rather than EEX?" question...

 

Because,

1)  The ALPHA key is, for now, prominent in both color and size, thus easily remembered as representing the ENTER key, and

2)  The ALPHA key might, one day, be physically interchanged with the geometrically identical ENTER key, if I ever get the nerve to (physically) disassemble the 50g, and if it's actually possible to do so.

 

I notice that you didn't address, in your latest response, this previously mentioned, radical proposal for 50g surgery.  I suppose that I should respect your policy of not calling people silly or stupid!  Obviously, I have an unhealthy, codependent love for HP RPN calculators!  That's what happens when you live with them everyday!

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Honored Contributor
Tim Wessman
Posts: 768
Registered: ‎01-08-2009
Message 12 of 13 (1,530 Views)

Re: HP 50g Key to Key Assignments

Forgot to address that.

 

Surgery will be very difficult because the keys themselves are formed into trees. All the solid black keys form a single plastic part. The lighter gery above are another, and so on. The two shift and alpha keys are inidividual keys, but the ENTER is linked to the rest of them.

 

I'd recommend two nice colored stickers with the words ENTER and ALPHA. :-)

 

Perhaps you want to go to the user conference that is held each year for calculator nuts just like you and I. It is in Fort Collins, Colorado this year on Sept 24-25. http://holyjoe.net/hhc2010/

--

TW


Although I work for the HP calculator group, the views and comments expressed here are my own.
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Occasional Advisor
Noisybits
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎08-13-2010
Message 13 of 13 (1,502 Views)

Re: HP 50g Key to Key Assignments

[ Edited ]

You have been exceedingly helpful, Tim.  Above and beyond the call!  Since you have well explained some idiosyncracies of modes, like EDIT, and have brought me quite close to my goal, I will not burden you with further questions, but I will continue to post, here on this thread and for the benefit of others, my continued development of the ENTER/ALPHA interchange.

 

The latter, of course, implies that some work remains in order for this key interchange to be fully reliable.  It is probable, I believe, that the issue can be tweeked a bit more, and is not currently "...as close as you can get without rewriting a bunch of the system."

 

Efforts to "pry me away" from this endeavor have been successful over the past few days and will continue through the weekend, after which I will give my full attention to this ENTER/ALPHA issue once again.

 

Nevertheless, for now, I have noticed several anomalies in the behavior of your last brilliant (and humbling) efforts, partially repeating that posting, for convenience, as follows:

 

<< -71 KEYEVAL >> ->TO? 105 ASN

<< -71.4 KEYEVAL >> ->TO? 105.4 ASN

<< -105 KEYEVAL >> ->TO? 71 ASN

<< -105.4 KEYEVAL >> ->TO? 71.4 ASN

 

Some anomalies behaviors:

1)  Using the default system keyboard (I'll abbreviate that as DSK, versus the User keyboard as USR), key in some object, containing a keystroke error; for example, NTSV rather than the correct NTSC.  Press ENTER.  While in the TOOLS soft-menu, press EDIT ( the F1 key).  Correct the V error so that the entry becomes NTSC.  Press ENTER.  NTSC is then displayed.

 

After the above key assignments and using the USR keyboard, start over and attempt the same correction to NTSV.  While in EDIT mode, after you delete the V, try to key in a C using the three keystrokes '105' '13' '71'; note that I've used the keycodes rather than the keynames in order to prevent confusion over what keyname is intended since we're using re-assigned keys.  Those three keystrokes represent ALPHA C ENTER.  But, as soon as key 105 (representing the ALPHA function) is pressed, "NTS" is returned to the display.  Obviously, key 105 did not produce the ALPHA function; it produced the ENTER function.  Thus, the newly assigned key 105 (assigned as the ALPHA function) produces the ENTER function when the 50g is in EDIT mode.

 

The problem may lie with the use to the ->TO? command.  I'll post, later, the results of some experimentation.

 

2)...

 

3)...

 

I will describe additional anomalous behaviors next week.

 

(Tim, is this continued posting, for the benefit of others, an inappropriate use of this forum?  Also, Tim, my legacy HP use:  the original 35 replacing my high-end Pickett, the 27, the 28S, all the foregoing given away to young aspiring engineers, the 48GX owned unfortunately by a former and ungenerous employer, and now the 50g.  I've had to endure relocation of the arithmatic operator keys, but can't seem to alter the habit of the legacy location of the ENTER key.  Also, Tim, I became aware of the HCC 2010, just a few days before you posted it; part of my reasoning for releasing you from any further obligation to this epic issue!)

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