Re: Fixing the HP35s problems (352 Views)
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DavidGriffith
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎11-15-2011
Message 1 of 19 (2,949 Views)

Fixing the HP35s problems

I've been going round and round on Usenet and the hpmuseum.org forum on the numerous problems of the HP35s.  I've never had an HP calculator of my own until recently and I recently became aware of the HP35s.  I had a lot of hope that the it would be a great calculator, but then I found the list of bugs and misfeatures at hpmuseum.org.  Among other feelings on the matter, I found it atrocious that HP would allow something like that out the door and not address it afterwards. I understand that quite some time has passed since the HP35s was released in 2007.  I understand that recalling all these calculators for repair is impractical and flashing is impossible.  What I want to see from HP is some assurance that it understands and sympathises with the community's displeasure with the HP35s.  Is there a replacement for the HP35s in the works?  What I'd like to see is something that fixes the bugs and misfeatures described in the link above and returns to a key layout more closely resembling the that of the HP32sii.  Also, I want to see some way of upgrading the calculator in the field so if some bug is discovered later on, the problem can be quickly fixed.  I understand that I could get much of what I want by using an HP50g, but I much prefer the user interface of the HP32sii and to some extent that of the HP35s.

 

In case you're wondering what HP calculator I got, it's an HP32sii.  I was going to get an HP35s, but, as you can see above, I really didn't want to spend my money on something like that.

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Honored Contributor
Miguel Angel Caporalini
Posts: 2,392
Registered: ‎02-09-2009
Message 2 of 19 (2,944 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems

[ Edited ]

Hi!, DavidGriffith:

Welcome, to Forum!.

 

If you have existing warranty for your HP35S, you must contact, with the HP Technical Service near, at you home. 

Is important see, the inform, from ... http://www.hpcc.org/datafile/V26Special/the35s.pdf

Now, if you want have today, the best graphics microcomputer (too call calculator), around the world, then you can purchase the HP50G. You can use and program in UsrRPL, SysRPL, ML and "C" with HPGCC2 or HPGCC3.

Please, see the Manuals, Guides, Tutorials, etc ..., from ...

http://adorio-research.org/wordpress/?p=453

http://h20331.www2.hp.com/hpsub/cache/383680-0-0-225-121.html

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/DocumentIndex.jsp?contentType=SupportManual&lang=en...

http://www.infoclearinghouse.com/files/hp/hp48g01.pdf

http://www.hpcalc.org/

http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1691

http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=5142

http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=7263

http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1760

http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=1771

http://www.buscadorhp.co.cc/

 

Too, the Quick Start Guide, from attachment file in clip.

 

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Advisor
DavidGriffith
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎11-15-2011
Message 3 of 19 (2,934 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems

I have a hard time believing that HP will fix this list of bugs and misfeatures for me given that it hasn't, to my knowledge, been fixed for anyone else.  This is the list of bugs posted by Paul Dale to hpmuseum.org.  Are you telling me that HP is now shipping HP35s calculators free of the below-listed problems?

 

1. Vector input bug has been mentioned and very weird behavior shows
       up but I'm not aware of this being isolated or repeatable. It might
       be related to memory full. I do have enough trust in the people
       reporting problems to believe there is something to them.

2. Cos(x) for x near 90 is dud. For what appears to be the same
       reason, Tan(x) for x near 90 is also dud.
3. Checksums are meaningless. Seems to be related to numbers in
       programs but nothing definitely proven yet.
4. Program sizes are also meaningless. Again seems to be number
       related and again nothing proven.
5. Bad error message on indirection on J: 1000 ; STO J ; x<>(J). You
       get "INVALID (I)" error message if done from the keyboard, from a
       program it gives the correct message.
6. Bad radix. If you are in RADIX, mode and you enter RADIX, in
       program mode it is displayed as "RADIX.". If you run the program it
       behaves correctly.
7. Program entry bug for large programs. Create a 999 step program and
       then try to enter a new LBL. You're not allowed. Delete one step,
       create the LBL and put the step back and all is fine.
8. In a program: VIEW (I) ; PSE will show the wrong value of I.
9. In ALL mode, the mantissa should be properly rounded so that the
       exponent fits on the screen. i.e. the entire number is displayed without scrolling.
10. This sequence as a program displays (37): 10 instead of (10): 10.
       LBL Z ; 10 ; STO I ; STO (I) ; VIEW I ; PSE It works fine in run
       mode and without the PSE. I've had a report that the keystrokes
       here should be: LBL Z ; 10 ; STO I ; STO (I) ; VIEW (I) ; PSE. Can
       somebody confirm please.
11. Pressing and releasing the binary operator keys real fast results
       in missed strokes.
12. The '1 (f) /c' sequence to display the current denominator doesn't
       work in ALG mode but is fine in RPN mode.
13. TANH, SINH and COSH all have bugs when applied to large values. An

 OVERFLOW message given when computing TANH for values greater than
       or equal to 30000. The TANH value is correct, 1, but the OVERFLOW
       message is wrong. SINH and COSH generate the OVERFLOW message
       correctly, but return the wrong values. Overflow is supposed to
       return 1E500, but with an argument greater than or equal to 30000
       SINH and COSH return the mantissa of the argument and the
       characteristic is changed to 499. e.g. SINH 31415 = OVERFLOW -->
       3.1415E499
14.
LBL A
156.25
STO X
208.333333334 ;There are eight 'threes' in there
STO R
1.77951304201
STO Q
-R*X/(X*Q-R) ;Should evaluate to roughly -467, and it does
-R*X/(X*Q-R) ;Should (still) evaluate to roughly -467, but
calculator outputs 31.323 instead!
RTN

15. Some programs cannot be interrupted. Prompt messages without a PSE
       following them cause the problem:
A001  LBL A
A002  SF 10
A003  LOCKUP DEMO
A004  0
A005  GTO A004
       Warning: running this code will mostly likely cause all memory to
       be lost.
16. When scrolling through 'line count' program memory [via the <-MEM
       2] menu, downward, I will find a LBL ; that the list seems to be
       stuck at. Seems to be related to have unlabeled statement(s) at the
       start of program memory and entering this mode when at the top of
       program memory (GTO ..)
17. Input -1/3 i -1/3 by typing ". 1 . 3 CHS i . 1 . 3 CHS ENTER". Get
       "0.3333i-0.3333" instead of "-0.3333i-0.3333". Works correctly when
       entering "0.3333333 CHS i 0.3333333 CHS ENTER".

18. It appears that registers G...L are used internally in the 2*2 lin.
       solve in an unusual way. If there is anything other than a real
       number in these registers (a complex number or a vector) the linear
       solver returns "no solution." Kind of interesting, as these
       registers are not overwritten after using the linear solver, which
       appears to indicate that these registers are not actually used.

 

   Now for some items that cannot be classified as bugs since they are
   documented or work correctly. These items are still quite annoying and
   should be fixed:
    1. GTO.a ENTER doesn't work as expected. GTO.a000 does.
    2. INPUT (i) for i>=0 doesn't work. This is documented in the manual
       but still seems wrong.
    3. Poor choice for the graphics for the "theta". It is much too close
       to the graphic for "8".
    4. No easy way to extract to deconstruct complex numbers into pairs of reals.
    5. No rectangular to polar conversions except for display purposes.
    6. 2*2 lin. solve and 3*3 lin. solve look strange. 2x2 and 3x3 seems
       better. i.e. multiplication sign instead of asterisk.
    7. Input of numbers in bases other than 10 require the suffix to be
       explicitly entered. This makes non-base 10 unworkable.

 

My personal addition to the misfeature list is the fact one can no longer enter a fraction by keying in the numerator, two dots, and then the denominator.  Instead one must key in a zero, a dot, numerator, another dot, then the denominator.  There appears to be no good reason for changing this shorthand behaviour.

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Honored Contributor
Miguel Angel Caporalini
Posts: 2,392
Registered: ‎02-09-2009
Message 4 of 19 (2,930 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems

[ Edited ]

Hi!, DavidGriffith:

 

This bugs, are reported by Paul Dale on 22 Aug 2007, 6:22 p.m. in the site ... http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=735 

 

Are you check, if all the bugs or errors, that were identified appear today, in your HP35S?.



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Advisor
DavidGriffith
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎11-15-2011
Message 5 of 19 (2,926 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems

I checked my brother's HP35s and found all the bugs listed.  I don't actually have one myself because I'm not certain that I'll get a bug-fixed calculator.  Instead I bought a used HP32sii.

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Honored Contributor
Miguel Angel Caporalini
Posts: 2,392
Registered: ‎02-09-2009
Message 6 of 19 (2,908 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems

[ Edited ]

Hi!, DavidGriffith:

 

I advise you to look out for in the ROM version date, of the HP 35S, of your brother. I think that since the new series, solved the problem. However, this forum will surely be someone, who may bring his own, too.

 

Note: If your brother want help, with the use of HP35S, please what see ... http://sliderule.mraiow.com/w/images/0/0e/Hewlett_Packard_HP-35s_Training_Aids.pdf

 


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Honored Contributor
Tim Wessman
Posts: 745
Registered: ‎01-08-2009
Message 7 of 19 (2,879 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems

There are no differences in any 35s ROM versions.

--

TW


Although I work for the HP calculator group, the views and comments expressed here are my own.
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Honored Contributor
Miguel Angel Caporalini
Posts: 2,392
Registered: ‎02-09-2009
Message 8 of 19 (2,869 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems

[ Edited ]

Hi!, Tim:

 

Thank you for your answer!.
It seems incomprehensible, that HP has not taken action, to correct all these errors and/or bugs.

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Advisor
DavidGriffith
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎11-15-2011
Message 9 of 19 (2,857 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems

[ Edited ]

Tim,

 

Since you work for the calculator group, I figured I'd lay out a little wishlist for the replacement for the 35s on top of the bug and misfeature list.  I'm guessing a replacement being worked in in some capacity now.  I imagine you're not allowed to talk about it thought.

 

  1. Use the chassis of the 30b and the LCD of the 35s.
  2. Key layout similar to the 32sii.
  3. Ability to update the firmware.
  4. USB and IR ports
  5. Put back the numerator-dot-dot-denominator keystroke for entering fractions without a whole number part.
  6. Use the top row of keys as menu selectors as is done in the 32sii.
  7. Even more memory than the 35s.
  8. Use screws instead of plastic rivets.
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Honored Contributor
Miguel Angel Caporalini
Posts: 2,392
Registered: ‎02-09-2009
Message 10 of 19 (2,811 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems

[ Edited ]

Hi!, DavidGriffith:

 

Interesting site, for learn to HP35S ... http://www.thimet.de/calccollection/calculators/HP-35s/Contents.htm

 

Note: Some addresses, from this site, are N/A. 

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Occasional Visitor
TomL_12953
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎07-20-2012
Message 11 of 19 (2,399 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems

[ Edited ]

Tim Wessman wrote:

There are no differences in any 35s ROM versions.


 Why revise the ROM if there are no differences?

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alancukurs
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎09-03-2013
Message 12 of 19 (1,156 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems

I have used HP calculators since 1985. I purchased some newer ones. The first one was a silver one which was hard to read the decimal point and the keys were sometimes no registering. So when the 35s came out, I snapped one up quickly. Within 15 months or so, the keys started not register. The ENTER key is really loose. I like the HP calculators but have serious reservations of continuing to use them. I will be taking a structural licensure exam, and the 35s is the only HP allowed. So I called customer services at HP. I got a lecture on warranties. The customer service rep, agreed that the quality was not as good as the past calculators and indicated that the chinese made ones tend to have loose keys. Has anyone purchased a 35s in the last 2 years and uses it daily and has had no problems with the keys? I debated buying another but the customer service rep said I may end up with the same thing. Am thinking of going back to non RPN and getting a casio or TI....I can not believe I said that. But I did.

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Honored Contributor
Miguel Angel Caporalini
Posts: 2,392
Registered: ‎02-09-2009
Message 13 of 19 (1,146 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems

Hi!, alancukurs:

 

Welcome, to Forum !.

 

Have you tried using the emulator HP35S?. You can use it for your exam?.

If yes, yo can use the emulator of the attachment file, in clip.

 

 

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Visitor
ab2tc
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎12-11-2013
Message 14 of 19 (669 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems

Hi,

 

I have used HP calculator(s) since about 1974. My first and only HP calculator is the HP25. I have been using it every day or workday ever since. It's starting to show some end-of-life issues so I decided to get a replacement (I just have to have RPN). I am not willing to pay hundreds of dollars for a collectors' item so I decided to give the HP25S a try in spite of much bad press.

 

As a replacement for the HP25 it passes muster. The keyboard is very nice (keys pivot as in all good HP calculators and are not loose). The display is not great (what's with the non-square "pixels", but passable (the HP25 LED display isn't exactly great either). I am a little concerned about having to replace non-rechargeable batteries often but if it becomes a problem I'll jury rig it with a 6V power supply).

 

It's really a shame with all the things it does poorly, but since those are mostly things that the HP25 did not do at all (like hexadecimal numbers) it's not a show stopper here. I am not sure what's up with the polar to rectangular conversion (which works perfectly in the HP25 but as I can't recall last time I used it, it won't be a show stopper either). Features that I love and use is engineering mode display, RPN, all HP specials are working to my satisfaction. The calculator is pretty.

 

My HP25 is still working perfectly (after several battery changes) except for one LED segment out (which doesn't matter since it's just in the program line number). The plastics on the front is either starting to dissolve or it's just massive amount of finger grease and other dirt. Now that I have a replacement I am willing to risk cleaning it with rubbing alcohol. If it goes, it will be missed, but not grievously.

 

AB2TC - Knut

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Valued Contributor
Joseph Horn
Posts: 75
Registered: ‎09-25-2006
Message 15 of 19 (649 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems

[ Edited ]

Don't use rubbing alcohol to clean an HP-25!  It'll remove the printing on the faceplate around the keys!

 

You can guess how I know this.  :-(

 

I found that a diluted solution of Windex dissolves finger grease without dissolving the printing. After drying, detail the faceplate with a Q-Tip moistened with ArmorAll. It can make a grungy HP-25 look new again.

 

-Joe-

-Joe-
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Respected Contributor
Bart dB
Posts: 381
Registered: ‎02-04-2010
Message 16 of 19 (633 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems


Joseph Horn wrote:

Don't use rubbing alcohol to clean an HP-25!  It'll remove the printing on the faceplate around the keys!

 

You can guess how I know this.  :-(

 

-Joe-




I have a similar experience on an HP-11C !  :-(. So I second Joe's advice on cleaning.

 

 

As for the HP-35s, I have had one for a few years and it works fine. However, I do not use it everyday so cannot vouch for it's reliability under heavy use.

 

The bugs don't bother me in daily use and I can avoid them or work around them. I have several programs in my 35s so I make sure to avoid any bugs that cause the calculator to lock up as it will erase all the user memory.

 

For Rectangular / Polar conversion there is the HP mode change method (detailed here), but can be improved by using a little program, several are available e.g. here or here.

 

Regards.

 

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Visitor
ab2tc
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎12-11-2013
Message 17 of 19 (557 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems


Hi,
Thanks for the advice. I just finished cleaning my HP25 and although a cople of the faceplate legends got slightly damaged, the calculator really looks almost like new. That Armorall really made it shine.
Knut - AB2TC
Joseph Horn wrote:

Don't use rubbing alcohol to clean an HP-25!  It'll remove the printing on the faceplate around the keys!

 

You can guess how I know this.  :-(

 

I found that a diluted solution of Windex dissolves finger grease without dissolving the printing. After drying, detail the faceplate with a Q-Tip moistened with ArmorAll. It can make a grungy HP-25 look new again.

 

-Joe-


 

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Visitor
ab2tc
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎12-11-2013
Message 18 of 19 (492 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems

Hi again,

 

Crap, several days later my HP25 is always in programming mode regardless of the position of the RUN/PRGM switch. I am guessing some gunk must have found its way into that switch. I can live without the programming mode (since programs are not persisted when turning the calculator off it is of limited usefulness). Does anybody know if the switch should be open or closed circuit  to stay in RUN mode?

 

Knut - AB2TC

 

PS. Does anybody know of a replacement source for the rubber feet? They are completely chewed up from repeated removal to access the mounting screws.

 


ab2tc wrote:

Hi,
Thanks for the advice. I just finished cleaning my HP25 and although a cople of the faceplate legends got slightly damaged, the calculator really looks almost like new. That Armorall really made it shine.
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Visitor
ab2tc
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎12-11-2013
Message 19 of 19 (352 Views)

Re: Fixing the HP35s problems

Hi again,

 

I got this all fixed. It turned out to be a problem with the board to board contact fingers. I used a small screwdriver to widen the gap between the to halves of the fork that makes up each finger. Calculator works like a charm again.

 

Knut

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